Cheap Products vs. High Wages... Americans Want BOTH!

[fearless9]

This is a very interesting thread, well interesting to me.

Clearly, democracy is breaking down if indeed it ever worked particularly well in mixed societies.
But then, nobody has a better answer since democracy socialises the cockups
and makes a lot of people think that they are "having their say".

"What is mine is mine and what is yours is ours" as the expression goes.

As I see it, the fun is yet to come.

With better health care (or should I say, better compensatory drugs) the world's population continues to increase right into the path of advancing robotics.

Sure a good chunk of manufacturing will return to US but it will be robotic plants that handle the manufacture and distribution.

So what are people going to do and where will their means of support come from.

200k worth of education is not going to help you compete for a job that does not exist.

In some ways the people of Latin America and asia hold an advantage since they have already mastered the art of living from meager incomes, so you don't miss what you never had.

I think that defining "work" is going to be the big challenge right after the current squabble for commodities, energy and water.

regards
f9

 

[gnome]

Quote from makloda:

"... Tough for the poor, but without education there is no upper-class future for someone in this world.

ANY kid today... poor or otherwise... has the potential to tell his parents or a teacher... "I want to become good [or at least better] at math, science, English." An kid who is willing to spend the effort can improve his lot in life by MAGNITUDES... if he'll just do the work.

I'm sure a lot of kids hope to "get somewhere" in school simply by attending.. like, one acquires knowledge through osmosis... and if it takes more effort than that, "fuggetaboutit"...

 

[fearless9]

Quote from gnome:

ANY kid today... poor or otherwise... has the potential to tell his parents or a teacher... "I want to become good [or at least better] at math, science, English." An kid who is willing to spend the effort can improve his lot in life by MAGNITUDES... if he'll just do the work.

I'm sure a lot of kids hope to "get somewhere" in school simply by attending.. like, one acquires knowledge through osmosis... and if it takes more effort than that, "fuggetaboutit"...

Agreed but if you have ever been in Taiwan or Korea and watched the school kids work then you wonder how the western kids are going to compete unless they pull their finger out.

regards
f9

 

[GermanTrader]

Quote from fearless9:

200k worth of education is not going to help you compete for a job that does not exist.

That is a mouthful. And true. But indiscernable from politics, to all but those free of political agenda.

 

[romanus]

Quote from fearless9:

Agreed but if you have ever been in Taiwan or Korea and watched the school kids work then you wonder how the western kids are going to compete unless they pull their finger out.

regards
f9

That argument has already been resolved - just go back in history to the early US when Irish would do the job cheaper than black slaves.

Your whole point of view revolves around which workforce is better equipped, better educated, healthier, stronger, etc.

In the bigger scheme of things those things matter little. It's all about capital and entrepreneurship (which is a healthy byproduct of unlimited freedoms this country has).

Even if 80% of US turns into white trash trailer park, TV watching, no math skills, barely able to read and write (the possibility is not so remote as one would think - 25% of Grand Rapids, MI population, not counting schools age children, are functionally illiterate) - even if that were to happen, it would still not affect the way things are and will be for many generations.

 

[gucci]

Quote from romanus:

...

In the bigger scheme of things those things matter little. It's all about capital and entrepreneurship (which is a healthy byproduct of unlimited freedoms this country has).

...

Hi,Romanus,

interesting discussion. Is it possible, that productivity and saturation of the markets can also play an important role in the bigger scheme of things? What do you think?

 

[fearless9]

Quote from romanus:

That argument has already been resolved - just go back in history to the early US when Irish would do the job cheaper than black slaves.

Your whole point of view revolves around which workforce is better equipped, better educated, healthier, stronger, etc.

In the bigger scheme of things those things matter little. It's all about capital and entrepreneurship (which is a healthy byproduct of unlimited freedoms this country has).

Even if 80% of US turns into white trash trailer park, TV watching, no math skills, barely able to read and write (the possibility is not so remote as one would think - 25% of Grand Rapids, MI population, not counting schools age children, are functionally illiterate) - even if that were to happen, it would still not affect the way things are and will be for many generations.

Exactly, that is my point entirely
regards
f9

 

[romanus]

Quote from gucci:

Is it possible, that productivity and saturation of the markets can also play an important role in the bigger scheme of things? What do you think?

Productivity and saturation as economic concepts hold very little value in real world unless defined in more narrow terms. When defined in more narrow terms both lose their status of economic concept.

E.g., saturation - the music market is pretty saturated - TV, Radio, CD's etc.
Then why Ipod's were selling like hot cakes?

Productivity - everybody and their uncle were buying industrial robots in the 80's hoping to cut the labor costs, until they became captives of robotic systems OEMs ( how would you like to pay 10K for a tiny electronic board that operates the cruise control in your 15K Chevy);

 

[gucci]

Quote from fearless9:



So what are people going to do and where will their means of support come from.

200k worth of education is not going to help you compete for a job that does not exist.

Hence the redistribution problems. This should be the major agenda of the politics. There is another solution though. To build more prisons...

 

[makloda]

Quote from romanus:In the bigger scheme of things those things matter little. It's all about capital and entrepreneurship (which is a healthy byproduct of unlimited freedoms this country has).

You bring up an excellent point. All things equal, ease of access to capital (plus quality of the financial and banking system) and government transparency and the level corruption are probably factors highly predictive of GDP per capita.

However, I don't believe the mere fact of having a well developed democracy with a low level of corruption or a well-working financial system are competitive advantages sustainable over the longer term. How long did it take Korea or Japan to achieve both? How long will it take Turkey, India, Brazil or Vietnam?