Chat Rooms - Trading oriented...

Vadym:

Fantastic response. Very typical, I mean what heck the day I got smoked I took some serious emotional damage and was all upset about stuff, what about September, when the tower collapsed I was there and I was shell-shocked, the week when they resumed trading was one of the biggest weeks in 2001 and I played like a total newbie didn't make a dime until Friday and chocked completely in that pivotal week. Oh how about this entire week I was not feeling 100% being sick and all but I still played . . . I guess when I talk about my average I should take those out of the equation as well . . .

Now my next question would be a typical Hitman question, are you capable of making more money than you do now, if you dedicate yourself 100% to your own trading? Before you start flipping through grammar books, realize that you are pinned down in a corner.

If the answer is yes, then my response would be "you are lying, what hell are you doing teaching others then, get off the high horse". If the answer is no, my response would be "so you accept the fact that you will never be a prime time trader and have to resort to taking advantage of bag holders I mean newbies".

And oh, I prepared a few more responses as well, if you say "I need more capital to trade", then I will e-mail you our latest recruiting letter from Worldco where you will have all the capital in the world to work with, even if you probably wouldn't want to play on my team :-)

You will disappoint me however if you come up with a washed-up response like "oh I don't care what others have in their pocket and I don't let anyone look into mine".

Am I being too hard on you? Well the day commission revenue from traders on my team exceeds 50% of my income from trading, will be the day I can no longer call myself a professional trader. Yes, I take the title of that seriously and I do not taint it for others in this business. I know desk managers making half a million a year from their traders but they put up seven digits all by themselve.

And don't get me wrong, I am just pulling a in-your-face version of Don Bright. I wish I can be more subtle but I have too much respect for him to duplicate his style.
 
Originally posted by Hitman
Being humble is a quality that I have in spades
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Hitman.. a truly humble man cannot be humiliated.. not by the market.. not by competitors who beat him.. not by a princess that rejects him.. its pride that makes a man boastful and spiteful.. you may be alot of things Hitman, but its doubtful that you will be accused of humility..


Originally posted by Hitman
Now my next question would be a typical Hitman question, are you capable of making more money than you do now, if you dedicate yourself 100% to your own trading? Before you start flipping through grammar books, realize that you are pinned down in a corner.

If the answer is yes, then my response would be "you are lying, what hell are you doing teaching others then, get off the high horse". If the answer is no, my response would be "so you accept the fact that you will never be a prime time trader and have to resort to taking advantage of bag holders I mean newbies".

And oh, I prepared a few more responses as well, if you say "I need more capital to trade", then I will e-mail you our latest recruiting letter from Worldco where you will have all the capital in the world to work with, even if you probably wouldn't want to play on my team :-)

You will disappoint me however if you come up with a washed-up response like "oh I don't care what others have in their pocket and I don't let anyone look into mine".

Am I being too hard on you? Well the day commission revenue from traders on my team exceeds 50% of my income from trading, will be the day I can no longer call myself a professional trader. Yes, I take the title of that seriously and I do not taint it for others in this business. I know desk managers making half a million a year from their traders but they put up seven digits all by themselve.
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your question is wrong.. a better question would be "Are people who pay for your service satisfied with the education you provide".. and as a former customer of RT, i am extremely pleased.. Hitman, my first year trading i made more than twice your income this year.. and that was taking two months off to teach english in china.. but things change, and the strategy that i was using was no longer workable.. i had been a spread trader and when i started trading for larger gains i was not prepared mentally for the challenge.. i was too confident and lost alot of money.. also, i had listened to some really dumb advice from another chat room, and picked up some bad habits like overtrading and shorting highs/ buying lows.. when i subscribed to RT i had alot of market "knowledge" from reading books etc.. but i didnt understand how to organize what i knew to make a workable strategy.. and my mindest was such that even if i had a workable strategy, i would not have been able to execute it.. shortly after i joined RT i was talking to one of the other members after the close in the main chat room.. Vad joined the discussion and started explaining how to get myself out of the slump.. there were several evenings when he spent time with me after the close to help me understand what i was doing wrong.. over time my thinking began to change and my trading started to improve.. honestly, without Vad's guidance or as i jokingly say "brainwashing" i probably would not still be in the game today..

so hitman.. i dont give a rats ass if you think Vad isnt a good trader or prime time or whatever nonsense because he runs a chat room.. his service was exactly as advertised, and in my book that makes him a legitimate businessman.. as well as a great trader.. and i might add, since everyones dick is on the ruler.. since he makes more money than you do, maybe you should show a little respect..

-qwik
 
Originally posted by Chartwiz212
This is too funny, I get badgered & harrassed when I post a thread to provide quality content to ET

BUT.........

You went after me in defense for your partner Ken that you did seminar(s) together as you admitted it a few days ago, so lets call it what it is, if you had no liking for Ken, you would have said nothing.......

Ken is a big boy, he doesnt need you to help him.......so lets leave a dead dog where it is, I have nothing futher to say negetive to him or anybody else,.........

I would rather we stop the bashing & keep it positive & lets get past the non constructive posts.......
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Chris,

As I said before. Ken is not my partner, we worked once together on a seminar. I only spoke up because of the hypocracy involved in your post. As you said, you had been harrassed and badgered yourself when you first arrived and I think it was wrong for you to do the same to Ken. I most definitely assure you that if you had attacked Vadym (whom I do not know) or anyone else in the same way I would have responded exactly the same. You will just have to believe me on that.

Now, I have re-read my original post to you and I am stating now that its tone was overly aggressive and attacking in nature and for that I apologise. I still believe it was wrong on your part to pull the same crap that had been pulled on you but it served no greater good for me to respond in such negative fashion. I agree with and accept your request to stop this BS and move on to more constructive posts. Happy New Year.
 
***Hitman, my first year trading i made more than twice your income this year***

Man, when I hit my 17K month back in March I thought anything less than six figures would be totally unacceptable. What heck, I had a 20K month with 100% margin trading part time out of my Datek account back in December 1999 before losing all of my profits in 2000!

The past mean nothing, what is important is present (2001) and beyond (2002). What is important is not what you did last year but what you did this year and next year and beyond. If my strategy no longer works, until I find a new one that does work, I am no better than a newbie fresh off the boat.

***Vad joined the discussion and started explaining how to get myself out of the slump.. there were several evenings when he spent time with me after the close to help me understand what i was doing wrong.. over time my thinking began to change and my trading started to improve.. honestly, without Vad's guidance or as i jokingly say "brainwashing" i probably would not still be in the game today.. ***

When you are getting blown out of the water every day, my dog can be an inspiration because he is not losing as much money as you are. I have a guy on my team who was on a losing streak, and I talk to him everyday, show him what I did during the day, make some comments on what he did, etc . . . You know what, when he snaps his losing streak (and he did on Friday) and hopefully, develops into a profitable trader, I won't take ANY credit for it.

The only person that can save you in a war, is yourself. If you were losing money, then everything you did is wrong. If you were losing money every day, then the only way to go is up because you already bottomed out.

You can not teach discipline, you can only tell them touching a hot stove hurts and you hope they turn the corner before they lose their hand. No one, and I mean no one, can make another person a successful trader, you can give them tips and guidance, you can show them exactly what you did every day, but you can only lead them to the door and they must open it by themselve.

***and i might add, since everyones dick is on the ruler.. since he makes more money than you do, maybe you should show a little respect.. ***

Last time I checked he claimed to average $200-$300 a day from his own trading. That stacks me up comfortably well against him from a trader vs. trader basis.

And to counter his chat room program I am organizing a team of my own traders, if they are profitable (yes I know I benefit from commissions but how long do you think someone will last in this business if they can't get a check and only generates commissions, and it is not like our firm ask for any serious capital contributions), I will stack up to those vendors WITHOUT sacrificing my own development as a trader, if they blow up, I will have little to show for my effort. I think that is a more fair and square way to make money.

I have no problem with chat room vendors if they audit their record, Brandon is about to do it and he will revolutionize this particular industry, and I will be a firm supporter of him regardless of what his numbers are, 5/6/7 figures, who cares, if he shows his numbers and people have faith in him, he earned it, fair and square. He will have a lot of customers and he will set a fine example of setting the wrong things right. A breath of fresh air in a dirty vendor game, a ray of sunshine in a dark alley . . .

In my eyes you are either on my side or you are not, I talk to a lot of people about trading and once Brandon is legit I will refer to him as the real deal, and anyone who doesn't audit their record by then will be considered a scam in my book.

While I am no "earth shaker" in this industry, I have a lot of readers for my trading journals, and I don't think anyone want to bet against me on my quest to fully develop my skills and go prime time. And if I do get there, I know that is a big IF, being a straight shooter will not cost me anything because most people prefer to deal with people with integrity.

And if I do survive, my reputation will eventually cost you customers if I don't think you have integrity, and you heard it here first. I am dead serious and I will draw the line in the sand, those that pass my integrity test will greatly benefit from my praises and those that do not will eventually feel the heat.

Of course I may blow up, selling hot dogs on Wall Street as a vendor lol, and never to be heard again, would you really want to take the chance?
 
Originally posted by limbo
Dattrader got to run-I'll reply to you later.
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Thanks for leaving me in limbo, Limbo. I am not sure if this is good or bad.....good because I am getting sick of taking flack and don't need anymore :).....and bad because I am obviously the lowest on your priority totem pole :(

See my Olive Branch post to Chris and let's just be done with it already.
 
Originally posted by Threei

Ok, let's try and establish constructive dialog. First of all, let's refrain from words like "crap" etc.
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Originally posted by DATTrader
I still believe it was wrong on your part to pull the same crap
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Oops....sorry Vad :)
 
see, the problem is, you are still fighting, challenging, proving something... while you are invited to constructive dialog. My question was, do you accept other opinions as valid or you are convinced once and for all that there are just two opinions, yours and wrong one?

Fir instance, I said that I don't think I need to include in my averages days when I do not trade at all for non-trading reasons (as opposed to trading ones, i.e., I couldn't find a trade or couldn't make myself pull a trigger - such days should be included). You cited example from completely different area to negate my opinion. It's fine that we don't agree on this - I accept the fact that you have different point of view. Why don't you accept this as well? What's with the urge to make everyone to take your stance?

You apparently measure success by "if one can become big time trader". Do you really think it's a absolute goal of everyone who is trading? What's wrong with just making a living? Day in day out, stable, consistent... do you consider such trade a failure? If you do, would you accept the fact that he is not a failure in his eyes since his goal originally was just to make a living trading?

The same problem arises with your measurement by audited trading statements when you refuse to consider "good" or "honest" anyone who won't let you in his personal financial situation. People have different ways to measure their success and it's not necessary your way. Why do you think many would be interested to compete with you in amounts of money made? For me personally trading is not contest at all. For you it is - that's fine, too.

On your question about would I make more money if I switched back to pure trading... I have easy answer: I don't know. And you don't know, too. History knows no "what if", we live one line of life with no parallel dimension for comparizon. I am satisfied with where I am, part of my income became more stable and this is what I wanted, even if income as a whole somewhat diminished. I had losing months and I had 20K+ months, and in early days of my trading when I had no really idea what I was doing those peaks and walleys were even greater: +15K in one day for instance, oldtimers that remember CAML ride in 1997 can relate... and -20K overnight, oldtimers that remember ESOL catastrophe can relate, too :)

Let me make two predictions... just curiosity sake, maybe some day you return to this and admit that I had a point.

1. I am 40, you are 22. In 18 years reading these posts of yours you are going to smile about this infinite confidence, total lack of doubts and huge desire to win against the world you show now.

2. IF (I hope it will never happen) you ever fail as a trader, the reason for this is going to be your ego. If you stay in the game for a long time, the reason for this is going to be your successful overcoming of your ego.

Best regards,

Vadym
 
Hitman--Let's set the record straight--I'm not a fan of yours. I peruse the journals filled with infantile sh-t--and occassionally can't believe what I'm reading as per the increasingly irritating unrequited love thing....... Now-as of late-you have developed this hostility arrogance thing which again is bothersome. This "war" thing you're in is in your head--what are you talking about? Either i'm interpreting this whole thing wrong or I think you've gone nuts.----no-i'm not on your side---and2) Yeah I'm betting against you-unless you get help as i've mentioned in the past. What the f--k are you saying in your last 2 paragraphs. We should live in fear of you as you achieve your greatness????????????????
 
"The same problem arises with your measurement by audited trading statements when you refuse to consider "good" or "honest" anyone who won't let you in his personal financial situation"

With respect, this is a red-herring and a cop out. I have made it clear in a previous post that I for one am not interested in seeing anyone's income tax returns or bank account. All I have asked for is that the vendors trade an audited account similar to that of a well-capitalized customer using the calls in their rooms, say $30,000 to $50,000. I don't care whether this is the only money being traded or whether the vendor is making multiples of Hitman's returns on the side. It is accountability, not competition that interests me. No vendor has yet explained to me why this level of accountability is an unreasonable expectation.

If they are successful the customer can see that the vendor can make money with the techniques he is teaching. If he is unsuccessful the customer can decide for himself whether it is bad luck, poor techniques being taught or because the vendor lacks the psychological traits of a good trader. But at least he would have a real basis for deciding whether the self-congratulation in the trading room is justified and the promotional material of the room is representative of real results.

No-one is asking for complete financial disclosure.
 
I understand your point. While some objections to this were made by others earlier, let me say two things on this matter.

1. Since we agreed that room obligations impact personal trading to great degree (I think this is unquestionable when we are talking about intraday trading), do you see anything wrong with posting of confirmed trading results up to the moment when chat room service was started? In my opinion this is reasonable. As in: Here are my results as a trader at the time when I was just trading. Now I am doing combined thing, part of my income is replaced, part of my time and my focus is devoted to other things, so let's include those other things in the equation, too, and evaluate me as an author and coach, too... Seems natural to me.... and that's what I did posting my trading results up to Oct of 2000.

2. I still have a problem with automatical labeling of anyone who wouldn't show his trading records as liar or incapable trader... I am just uncomfortable with categorical assumptions. Life is more complicated than that, people have different reasons, and being dishonest or bad trader is just one of them... I guess I am more of "Not guilty unless otherwise is proven" guy :)

Vadym
 
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