Chat Rooms - Trading oriented...

I agree 100% with the sentiments and logic in Toby's last post and Hitman's last 2 posts...

Anyone who is a serious trader, who knows what trading really entails, and who knows the ups and downs of trading, will realise that these so-called 'guru' chat rooms are predominantly valueless snake pits for the unwary newbies, newbies who need their hands to be held.

I am not slamming all chat rooms, but I am slamming 95% of them, since most are a fast way to the poor house... they do nothing but enrich the vendors.

For those newbies amongst you just starting out let me make some recommendations:
1) find a mentor, an experienced trader who is willing to share and who is willing to hold your hand for a few months.. someone who will do it for free, with no ulterior motives
2) take out free trials with every single paid chat room (without committing real money after the trial period), to affirm to yourself that 95% of them are pure BS ... make your own mind up about the 5% that is of educational value (judging from the comments of Vadym - realitytrader.com - on the Siliconinvestor.com forum and on the website, Vadym is the only guy I would rate for a newbie, who wishes his hand to be held for the first few months).
3) Read The Disciplined Trader several times
4) Start small, gain confidence, gain self-belief, and most of all: overcome the psychological barriers
5) Read The Disciplined Trader several more times
6) Learn continuously from your mistakes, seek to improve yourself on a daily basis for the rest of your life
7) Obtain a state of being in the zone, where you can trade independently of anyone, and where you have conquered the majority of psychological issues

Candle
 
My math was only a guestimate and I tend to use hyperbole for effect. Thank-you for not trying to deny the substance of my conclusion though. Brandon also deserves credit for this quote extracted from earlier in the thread:

"I used to run a chatroom because it paid about $30,000 a month and that was nice."

I have no reason to doubt that the scalping techniques you teach cannot work, although I suspect that they are more difficult than they used to be in the markets of 1999-2000. Rather I was thinking of something I thought you said elsewhere, perhaps even on a different board.

Someone was reminiscing about when he had guaranteed execution with a market maker and when the market maker was slow to update his quotes he was able to hit his bid or ask and engage in riskless arbitrage to the tune of hundreds of dollars per day sometimes. I cannot find the message and I hope I am not mistaken in thinking it was you who said it. I was just trying to illustrated that easy money is not to be found in trading these days.

You listed the disadvantages you had as getting started as a trader. You did have one serious advantage. Vadym lived in a place where winter can last almost 8 months. I know because I used to live close by. There's nothing like knowing that it's 35 below outside to help keep your concentration focussed on lots of little numbers on a screen:D It's the guys who trade in Florida and California who deserve the credit for dedication.
 
Hitman.........I rather let you keep talking out of your ass & wasting your own energy typing love letters to me that have no substance backing it up, none

You will waste your time trying to fight wiith me & embarrasse me online, I have more things to do than have a pissing match with you

Its not worth it, I read your true confessions of a rookie day trader & realised I should not waste my time fighting you, your 22 & made some profits & think your on top of the world, GREAT

okay Ali........

Its okay to be proud of yourself & beat yourself on your chest as I agree, you did something most cannot do in thier career, make money , Dont forget where you come from Your probabyly from queens or brooklyn or the bronx & come from a humble working family & you got a shot to come into the markets & become something because you would not have a real shot at success anywhere else........now you make a couple of bucks, your pockets have money in them & your goal is to live in manhattan.........great...........focus on your goals not me.....if you want to be King Kong & beat your chest, I applaud you.....its okay go be King Kong.......enjoy......if 300 a day is your goal....great if 3000 great.........who cares beside you ? nobody.......

BUT try & stay humble. who said you cannot lose it all in 2002 ? or something happens to you that puts you out of trading for months............You dont know the future, stay humble & dont beat on the somebody who has no problems with you.......

You need to learn 1 simple thing & its to be humble, you knocking me gets you no where & wastes your energies ...........Chris
 
Disciplined Trader is one of rare books that set a trader on the right path, totally agree, but in my opinion Trading in the Zone, latest book by the same author beats first one hands down. Ideal way is probably to read both :) but if I had to chose, my choice would be Trading in the Zone.

Did you like it less? Or it just came around at the times when you needed this kind of books less due to advance in self control and self understanding?

Best regards,

Vadym
 
My belief is, that psychological approach to the markets fall into three categories:

1. Beginners - they want to believe that trading business is like any other business, but there is less pain involved and the profits grow faster. If this fails, they still keep searching for "holy grail" (it must exist somewhere !).

2. Experienced - if You`ve been through all these miracle strategies, books full of trash, hundreds of indicators showing what already happened, seminars where they teach You
positive thinking, but nothing useful towards trading, newsletters giving You hundreds of ideas but none of them profitable in trading etc. You must be sceptical. And if You are still in the business that means You`ve learned how to choose between useful (very small part of whole thing) and useless (prevailing majority).

3. Advisory business trader - You are experienced, so You know what the trading business is: losing months (and years), series od loses (i.e. before Christmas, no matter You worked so hard), good years, bad years - never know when it comes. So You do advisory business. This gives You advantage of traditional business: steady income, satisfaction coming from the social part of it (contact with Your customers versus sitting with Your charts alone) and popularity - if You`re doing well. The possible problem in this category is the oldest problem of the world - once You sell Your ideas well, You may start believing that You know more about markets than others, and then the demand for the power can grow :D

As shown above, these three groups may experience difficulties communicating each other, while their expectations are so different :)
 
Originally posted by dufferdon
Thank-you for not trying to deny the substance of my conclusion though.

Well, what to deny... anyone who claims he runs the service out of pure love for the mankind is hypocrite, pure and simple. It's a lot of work and if it doesn't pay off why do it.

I have no reason to doubt that the scalping techniques you teach cannot work, although I suspect that they are more difficult than they used to be in the markets of 1999-2000.

They are somewhat different, for sure. When decimalization was introduced first impression was, scalping is dead. It became more difficult although not impossible, but in a short while SuperSOES made things better again. Those two together created new balance. Lightening scalps are not as often and as easy as they used to be but scalping as a style, as philosophy is far from dead.

Rather I was thinking of something I thought you said elsewhere, perhaps even on a different board.
Someone was reminiscing about when he had guaranteed execution with a market maker and when the market maker was slow to update his quotes he was able to hit his bid or ask and engage in riskless arbitrage to the tune of hundreds of dollars per day sometimes. I cannot find the message and I hope I am not mistaken in thinking it was you who said it.

I think I know what you mean. Can't find that post on the fly, too, but I remember it. We were discussing autoexecution feature with NDBC introduced by Castle Online, and I mentioned the trick that worked in late 1999/early 2000 when Castle had NITE for autoexec - arbitrage using current offer for entry and overlapping ISLD bid for exit. Of course in those days of hot buying this happened on almost daily basis, but that was not the major way to make money. It lasted just 3 months, then NITE withdrew from the deal... and after all, that was just a trick, nothing more... not strategy or technique that would be more or less universal, rather short-lived inefficiency, too good to pass on :)

You listed the disadvantages you had as getting started as a trader. You did have one serious advantage. Vadym lived in a place where winter can last almost 8 months. I know because I used to live close by. There's nothing like knowing that it's 35 below outside to help keep your concentration focussed on lots of little numbers on a screen:D It's the guys who trade in Florida and California who deserve the credit for dedication.

ROFL!
Thank goodness it becomes easier... last several years winter is not as harsh and lasts like 4-5 months... so my "advantage" is losing its appeal, and somehow I am not too eager to get it back :)

Vadym
More...
 
Originally posted by Chartwiz212
Vadym, maybe you want to take the lead & start a clean thread we all could particpate in positively, I am in if everybody else is in ! You Pick the Topic & start & I hope everybody will come along & do the right thing & contribute

Chartwiz
More...

I am somewhat torn on this... see, my concern is: all the basics and many details of our trading philosophy, methods and techniques are relied on both, SI thread "Trade what you see, not what you think" which has thread summary (I am not sure whether it's ethical by Elite house standards so I'll refrain from posting the URL) and on our website. Wouldn't be new thread leading to re-posting of all that material and once again seen as attempt of solicitation?

Instead, I would probabaly prefer to participate in any discussion where I feel like I have 2 cents to add, or I would answer any question about the way I see market and trading. This might be more constructive than discussion of my motives for posting which is almost imminent in case of new thread. Last thing I want would be such fight, as you see I refrain from participation in battles of this kind. I appreciate Brandon's decision not to get engaged in them from now on. I am convinced that things would develop better for all parties if guidelines for posting that I suggested at the start of this thread were accepted by other "vendors". After all, as a traders don't we know that fight is not the way to approach the matter?? :)

Best regards,

Vadym
 
Just got back to this site after several days and will not post all my thoughts--However, I will say this(and I hope he does not mind). Chris-Chartwiz and I have become friends. After a bit of confrontation-Chris contacted me--we emailed -we spoke by phone. Chris offered to help me if I so wished--mentor-I guess of sorts. Chris is brash-Chris is straight forward-Chris does not hide from confrontation--I think he thrives on it--Chris loves a challenge-Chris is smart.. This guy does not want any $ from me and has offered to help me grow. I did not ask him for this assistance. He put forth the offer. Am I making myself clear? We have already spent several hours talking trading. I like this guy--he's real and sincerely delights in helping people.. I'll say that again--he really wants to help people trade better. So in conclusion let me say this--Dattrader--you're out of line--I asked Chris to kindly rejoin ET.. Chris keep the good info coming.
 
Chartwiz212
Hitman.........I rather let you keep talking out of your ass & wasting your own energy typing love letters to me that have no substance backing it up, none

All Hitman said was show me the numbers (as he does). You should have said yes or no anything else is BS. Plain and simple.
Funny how all people who love to teach so much avoid the straight talk so consistenly.
 
Speaking of Hitman-If at all possible(with due respect) please try to leave out the unrequited love stuff in your journals. Sorry to say but its approached adolescence and really inappropriate for this site.
 
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