mrbud, I agree that there is no stand alone indicator, but I ask you this: Can price be used alone without reference to volume? I think point & figure charting is a joke.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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Chat Rooms - Trading oriented...
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Guys.........you dont get it do you.............
Since My buddy Dufferdon is on the sidlines & very quiet >>>>>>I have to say something as it bothers me to see Ken post his information that I know is purely a plot to sucker people to his site for his course & his chatroom.......i have a chatroom but after reading his transcripts .......actually after my trading assistant & I tried to read them & pick apart ALL his calls...........i got annoyed & felt I should post here ..............
Ken throws out alot of trades on his chatroom to make it look like he is busy.........if you actually do what I did the last few days, take your time & go thru the transcripts.....there is actually a few days there if you look........but if you take his picks you will see his win ratio is very low.........low low low
He doesnt talk about the losers....he talks about a winner here & there............BUT the fact of the matter is........He doesnt trade but 200-1000 shares MAYBE On a good day because he publicly admitted he has a traders block to move UP in size.....I dont consider 500 or 1000 shares doing size.........BUT if he doesnt trade really, how could he teach others to become successful ?
Those that dont do teach ?.........many broke college professors out there.......
Ken........how about try teaching how to work a position & get the right price & not enter at the market or exit at the market........teach to manage 1 trade rather than calling 20 & showing off the 1 or 2 winners.........throw enough darts ou will hit a target.........
His members cant see the losers because they are to busy watching him talk about the winners & teaching all day long........all day long...........blind them with alot of chatter.........God........
the best is.......
He said he tests his techniques in his chatroom live.........not backtesting....he doesnt do that.....he tests them out LIVE.........risking members money they saved to be able to get into & become profitiable in the trading business.......poor souls....like bait fish waiting for the shark to eat them......
How does he know what the true conditions & fills are ? how does he know anything about the trade if he is not actually trading them ?
Teaching like a mad man all day but doesnt manage any of his zilllion calls becase he knows it will show his true win loss ratio % & his memebrs will get annoyed seeing "stopped out " over & over..........He says he risks 20 cents on a trade........when the markets running aganst you & if you check his trades to a 1 min chart you will see he had many run the wrong, spike against them the wrong way & goodluck getting out at 20 cents stop when the markets running & the trader who is inexpernced to start is frozen like a deer in headlights.........goodluck with a 20 cent stop.....try 30-50 cents or as many novies do.......hold on to the losers as they think it may come back & let them out......
If & I say IF Ken actually traded , he claims to trade 200-500 shares but whatever......if he did trade he would know that his BREAKOUT calls are very risky & knows that in a consolidation market they are death to a inexperinced trader & usually a reverse move is fast & hard & 20 cents is gone in seconds........Deer in the headlights effect..............
He calls alot of trades & doesnt manage them at all........I guess he expects the inxperienced traders to do it on thier own......offer those winners on the way up right just above the offer ............or get out at the market & get the worst price maybe below the bid....teach them how to enter & exit first.........thats more important to me than callig 20 trades & not manage but a few winners....
........okay...........
He claims his room is for education only NOT to take the trades with real money..........if this is true, he is free & clear to post tons of ideas & not worry about any losers cause nobody is taking the trades & he holds no risk at all..........right ? so he teaches those winners pretty good.........He claims that the other chats have thier hands in memebers pockets....well if he is giving only education & calling trades BUT the memebrs should not trade the calls......he is right..........he doesnt have his hands in the members pockets at all..., he has thier wallets in his pockets pure & simple.........
Ken..........you say one thing & do another and come here to promite your chatroom & your paid website service that you claim to be able to teach others to trade successfully.......lets start with you first..............prove to your members you could manage all your picks from your chatroom as you would if you traded them & since your not trading more than a few shares at a time...maybe decrease your calls & manage them so its easier to follow your service
The ET members from the replies are actually thinking BUYING the highs & SHORTING the lows is a GOOD TRADING METHOD......... it is a losing game , just read Kens transcripts , its black & white & he asked all of us to look at it......I did & I was shocked.......
He claims to teach traders to make money.........you have them buying breakouts......they pay 300 a mo for you to teach them the most common method to trade.......something traders did in the 1999 rally...........then it was a good idea.........I cannot say that for the last 1 1/2 yrs...........but no money management at all.......at all............
The best statement was on his prior post.......He would like to go one on one with another chatroom moderator at an expo......okay Ken..to much Eggnog for Xmas this weekend huh ? oooooohhhkayyy.....relax big guy............try to follow your own transcripts after the fact......I needed my office assistant to help me read his coded text trade calls that nobody is supposed to trade......Jim B at the online expo would have to hire several people to follow your calls & the cost would be extreme.........
I dont know kens motive for being on ET.........but I do know that his claims & bashing of other services & his "we provide education only & my calls are not to be traded " thinking left me no choice but to reply.............
Nobody needs to bash anybody else....Ken publicly bashed several chatrooms out there Waxie, Jay, Thunder/lightening & others in regard to thier calls & services & the way they conduct business.....brandonf Threei & myself also have services BUT we do not bash each other...its just not ethical, we actually give credit to each other on our work.......Ken, do you feel better for doing it ? Its not professional at all to bash a competitor
I am not bashing here I am calling it as I see it.........Ken is here to promote his site & services for people to pay good money for, watch his picks & not trade them...........I dont know about you, but if the traders pay money to his chatroom & dont trade, do they work at a supermarket at night or servce coffee at a diner to replace the income they are not making ?...........Whats the point of teaching them to trade, taking thier money & Then putting them in your chatroom & charging them BUT tell them NOT to trade........deal of a lifetime.........Just make a disclaimer & let them deciede but your calling trades, you call & get exited when you win.......let your users get exicted cause they made money on your calls..........
My only suggesttion is this..........Call a trade Manage it from Open to close of the position, ...
When you have NO trades open & MARKETS ARE QUIET ?? not in a very active day BUT A QUIET DAY or right after you close out a trade WINNER OR LOSER.......TEACH.......after the close.........TEACH..............
OR Try this.......
Dont make any calls & Just teach all day......this way nobody would lose money & have a clear understanding they will not trade when your teaching........BUT if your going to call trades.....EXPECT memebers to trade them......its only natural.......
Calling 20-30 trades and having your memebers type in your room all day inst easy for a novice to follow let alone an experinced trader...rigjht ??
Chartwiz.........
Since My buddy Dufferdon is on the sidlines & very quiet >>>>>>I have to say something as it bothers me to see Ken post his information that I know is purely a plot to sucker people to his site for his course & his chatroom.......i have a chatroom but after reading his transcripts .......actually after my trading assistant & I tried to read them & pick apart ALL his calls...........i got annoyed & felt I should post here ..............
Ken throws out alot of trades on his chatroom to make it look like he is busy.........if you actually do what I did the last few days, take your time & go thru the transcripts.....there is actually a few days there if you look........but if you take his picks you will see his win ratio is very low.........low low low
He doesnt talk about the losers....he talks about a winner here & there............BUT the fact of the matter is........He doesnt trade but 200-1000 shares MAYBE On a good day because he publicly admitted he has a traders block to move UP in size.....I dont consider 500 or 1000 shares doing size.........BUT if he doesnt trade really, how could he teach others to become successful ?
Those that dont do teach ?.........many broke college professors out there.......
Ken........how about try teaching how to work a position & get the right price & not enter at the market or exit at the market........teach to manage 1 trade rather than calling 20 & showing off the 1 or 2 winners.........throw enough darts ou will hit a target.........
His members cant see the losers because they are to busy watching him talk about the winners & teaching all day long........all day long...........blind them with alot of chatter.........God........
the best is.......
He said he tests his techniques in his chatroom live.........not backtesting....he doesnt do that.....he tests them out LIVE.........risking members money they saved to be able to get into & become profitiable in the trading business.......poor souls....like bait fish waiting for the shark to eat them......
How does he know what the true conditions & fills are ? how does he know anything about the trade if he is not actually trading them ?
Teaching like a mad man all day but doesnt manage any of his zilllion calls becase he knows it will show his true win loss ratio % & his memebrs will get annoyed seeing "stopped out " over & over..........He says he risks 20 cents on a trade........when the markets running aganst you & if you check his trades to a 1 min chart you will see he had many run the wrong, spike against them the wrong way & goodluck getting out at 20 cents stop when the markets running & the trader who is inexpernced to start is frozen like a deer in headlights.........goodluck with a 20 cent stop.....try 30-50 cents or as many novies do.......hold on to the losers as they think it may come back & let them out......
If & I say IF Ken actually traded , he claims to trade 200-500 shares but whatever......if he did trade he would know that his BREAKOUT calls are very risky & knows that in a consolidation market they are death to a inexperinced trader & usually a reverse move is fast & hard & 20 cents is gone in seconds........Deer in the headlights effect..............
He calls alot of trades & doesnt manage them at all........I guess he expects the inxperienced traders to do it on thier own......offer those winners on the way up right just above the offer ............or get out at the market & get the worst price maybe below the bid....teach them how to enter & exit first.........thats more important to me than callig 20 trades & not manage but a few winners....
........okay...........
He claims his room is for education only NOT to take the trades with real money..........if this is true, he is free & clear to post tons of ideas & not worry about any losers cause nobody is taking the trades & he holds no risk at all..........right ? so he teaches those winners pretty good.........He claims that the other chats have thier hands in memebers pockets....well if he is giving only education & calling trades BUT the memebrs should not trade the calls......he is right..........he doesnt have his hands in the members pockets at all..., he has thier wallets in his pockets pure & simple.........
Ken..........you say one thing & do another and come here to promite your chatroom & your paid website service that you claim to be able to teach others to trade successfully.......lets start with you first..............prove to your members you could manage all your picks from your chatroom as you would if you traded them & since your not trading more than a few shares at a time...maybe decrease your calls & manage them so its easier to follow your service
The ET members from the replies are actually thinking BUYING the highs & SHORTING the lows is a GOOD TRADING METHOD......... it is a losing game , just read Kens transcripts , its black & white & he asked all of us to look at it......I did & I was shocked.......
He claims to teach traders to make money.........you have them buying breakouts......they pay 300 a mo for you to teach them the most common method to trade.......something traders did in the 1999 rally...........then it was a good idea.........I cannot say that for the last 1 1/2 yrs...........but no money management at all.......at all............
The best statement was on his prior post.......He would like to go one on one with another chatroom moderator at an expo......okay Ken..to much Eggnog for Xmas this weekend huh ? oooooohhhkayyy.....relax big guy............try to follow your own transcripts after the fact......I needed my office assistant to help me read his coded text trade calls that nobody is supposed to trade......Jim B at the online expo would have to hire several people to follow your calls & the cost would be extreme.........
I dont know kens motive for being on ET.........but I do know that his claims & bashing of other services & his "we provide education only & my calls are not to be traded " thinking left me no choice but to reply.............
Nobody needs to bash anybody else....Ken publicly bashed several chatrooms out there Waxie, Jay, Thunder/lightening & others in regard to thier calls & services & the way they conduct business.....brandonf Threei & myself also have services BUT we do not bash each other...its just not ethical, we actually give credit to each other on our work.......Ken, do you feel better for doing it ? Its not professional at all to bash a competitor
I am not bashing here I am calling it as I see it.........Ken is here to promote his site & services for people to pay good money for, watch his picks & not trade them...........I dont know about you, but if the traders pay money to his chatroom & dont trade, do they work at a supermarket at night or servce coffee at a diner to replace the income they are not making ?...........Whats the point of teaching them to trade, taking thier money & Then putting them in your chatroom & charging them BUT tell them NOT to trade........deal of a lifetime.........Just make a disclaimer & let them deciede but your calling trades, you call & get exited when you win.......let your users get exicted cause they made money on your calls..........
My only suggesttion is this..........Call a trade Manage it from Open to close of the position, ...
When you have NO trades open & MARKETS ARE QUIET ?? not in a very active day BUT A QUIET DAY or right after you close out a trade WINNER OR LOSER.......TEACH.......after the close.........TEACH..............
OR Try this.......
Dont make any calls & Just teach all day......this way nobody would lose money & have a clear understanding they will not trade when your teaching........BUT if your going to call trades.....EXPECT memebers to trade them......its only natural.......
Calling 20-30 trades and having your memebers type in your room all day inst easy for a novice to follow let alone an experinced trader...rigjht ??
Chartwiz.........
The ET members from the replies are actually thinking BUYING the highs & SHORTING the lows is a GOOD TRADING METHOD......... it is a losing game
Not to go into other points of your post but with this I have to respectfully disagree. If you commented on some particular method Ken uses I would refrain from discussion as I never studied his approach to any depth. But if this is generic statement about Buy High and Sell Low (which seems to be what you mean) then sorry, can't agree. This is valid way to play the trend, IMO.
In fact I believe that Buy Low Sell High is the single worst idea responsible for failure of more traders than any other, outdoing even infamous "It's not a loss until you sell".
Idea of buying highs and selling lows is the cornerstone of our trading approach and if anyone is interested I am ready to go in more depth on this.
Best regards,
Vadym
Not to go into other points of your post but with this I have to respectfully disagree. If you commented on some particular method Ken uses I would refrain from discussion as I never studied his approach to any depth. But if this is generic statement about Buy High and Sell Low (which seems to be what you mean) then sorry, can't agree. This is valid way to play the trend, IMO.
In fact I believe that Buy Low Sell High is the single worst idea responsible for failure of more traders than any other, outdoing even infamous "It's not a loss until you sell".
Idea of buying highs and selling lows is the cornerstone of our trading approach and if anyone is interested I am ready to go in more depth on this.
Best regards,
Vadym
Breakouts are a valid game, obviously........a narrow low volitle enviorment leads to breakouts.......but this is what Ken clams to be teaching as a everyday method.......hey go pick apart his trade calls & see for yourself.....you will understand my basis......but breakout plays are valid under the right conditions leading to it........sorry to not include every detail in my letter Chris
ps.......yes please go into depth about your approach as it will help others.
ps.......yes please go into depth about your approach as it will help others.
These used to be Toni's bread and butter play during the late great bull market. Say a stock is strong in the morning or whatever and then it bases near the high over noon or something then breaks out right after the bonds close. Something like that..she used to play these all the time. Barry Rudd wrote a book about breakouts too, and I think that both of them will tell you that they havent worked in that manner for some time. Breakouts are still a valid play..but not the same kind that we used to see. Now what we see more are some volatility coil building for several days and then a strong break (look at the DOW, SP400, SP500, Nasdaq today for an idea of this)..or sometimes a stock which will gap up strongly in the am but do nothing at all until later in the day.
Originally posted by Brandonf
These used to be Toni's bread and butter play during the late great bull market. Say a stock is strong in the morning or whatever and then it bases near the high over noon or something then breaks out right after the bonds close. Something like that..she used to play these all the time. Barry Rudd wrote a book about breakouts too, and I think that both of them will tell you that they havent worked in that manner for some time. Breakouts are still a valid play..but not the same kind that we used to see. Now what we see more are some volatility coil building for several days and then a strong break (look at the DOW, SP400, SP500, Nasdaq today for an idea of this)..or sometimes a stock which will gap up strongly in the am but do nothing at all until later in the day.
Exactly my point..........!
Chartwiz,
WIth all due respect, your hypocritical tendencies are really sickening. I actually felt sorry for you when you were run off the boards yourself for your blatant efforts at "selling" your self. Frankly, I did not have any problem with these posts from room operators defending/promoting themselves as it is to be expected somewhat.
But now that you have turned the other cheek and attack Ken for what you say are similar tendencies is a little outrageous don't you think? Whether Ken is or isn't being commercial, or whether he has or has not criticized other chatrooms is irrelevant. You are not the self appointed policeman of the threads, and more importantly, what happened to all your Tony Robbins "let's all exude positive energy and get along" stuff you were spewing when everyone (Dufferdon, etc) was attacking you. I am sorry but you set yourself up for this one with that long rambling emotional rant against Ken.
LOL I remember your "last" post after you were bashed being something like "I will no longer post to Elite boards...no body likes me or appreciates me...etc." Then the inevitable "I'm serious, this is my last post"...then "OK I said I was leaving, I only came back to make sure my thread was deleted" ...."Don't ask me back if I leave I am gone for good" and the likes. LOL. You never left and now you are pulling the same crap everyone else did to you. ChartWiz, I am involved in the industry and we have common acquaintances but I cannot sit idly by without commenting on what I believe to be your own unprofessional, and frankly immature, responses and posts which you yourself would have stated were useless attacks if someone else had posted them towards you.
As for Ken's style and success, I have studied it very closely, use it myself with real live trades, and I can assure you that it works well if managed well. Yes it can get a little overwhelming managing the calls if you are actually trading them, but it is up to a trader to adapt to his level of skill and trading prowess. Ken states all the time that if you are newer, you should only pick one or two stocks from each of the three main sectors he trades and watch those only. If one were to actually trade them, they could certainly manage it if they handled it this way.
For me, I simply made up an excel spreadsheet fed with live data that automatically sorts for the stocks closest to the pre-identified entry level and I can manage things fine and the style generates many trade opportunities for me on a daily basis. ALso, I can tell you that the win-loss ratio is MUCH BETTER than what you indicated. I suggest you back up your specific comments based on the research your "assistant" did before posting it.
ANd what about the fact that he is charging to only teach breakouts which are are "old, simple, strategies" or whatever you said. Isn't that the point you made on an earlier post in another thread, that we should keep it simple and not get too wrapped up in all the indicators, patterns, etc?
Finally, I will be happy to post more observations on how Ken's specific style has worked for me but I will first state right now that I AM NOT KEN, nor do I have any benefit in making these posts other than to give my honest opinion based on MY OWN experiences. I just think CHartWiz's antagonistic and critical post towards Ken, particularly after the own bashing he took on these same boards, was sickening.
WIth all due respect, your hypocritical tendencies are really sickening. I actually felt sorry for you when you were run off the boards yourself for your blatant efforts at "selling" your self. Frankly, I did not have any problem with these posts from room operators defending/promoting themselves as it is to be expected somewhat.
But now that you have turned the other cheek and attack Ken for what you say are similar tendencies is a little outrageous don't you think? Whether Ken is or isn't being commercial, or whether he has or has not criticized other chatrooms is irrelevant. You are not the self appointed policeman of the threads, and more importantly, what happened to all your Tony Robbins "let's all exude positive energy and get along" stuff you were spewing when everyone (Dufferdon, etc) was attacking you. I am sorry but you set yourself up for this one with that long rambling emotional rant against Ken.
LOL I remember your "last" post after you were bashed being something like "I will no longer post to Elite boards...no body likes me or appreciates me...etc." Then the inevitable "I'm serious, this is my last post"...then "OK I said I was leaving, I only came back to make sure my thread was deleted" ...."Don't ask me back if I leave I am gone for good" and the likes. LOL. You never left and now you are pulling the same crap everyone else did to you. ChartWiz, I am involved in the industry and we have common acquaintances but I cannot sit idly by without commenting on what I believe to be your own unprofessional, and frankly immature, responses and posts which you yourself would have stated were useless attacks if someone else had posted them towards you.
As for Ken's style and success, I have studied it very closely, use it myself with real live trades, and I can assure you that it works well if managed well. Yes it can get a little overwhelming managing the calls if you are actually trading them, but it is up to a trader to adapt to his level of skill and trading prowess. Ken states all the time that if you are newer, you should only pick one or two stocks from each of the three main sectors he trades and watch those only. If one were to actually trade them, they could certainly manage it if they handled it this way.
For me, I simply made up an excel spreadsheet fed with live data that automatically sorts for the stocks closest to the pre-identified entry level and I can manage things fine and the style generates many trade opportunities for me on a daily basis. ALso, I can tell you that the win-loss ratio is MUCH BETTER than what you indicated. I suggest you back up your specific comments based on the research your "assistant" did before posting it.
ANd what about the fact that he is charging to only teach breakouts which are are "old, simple, strategies" or whatever you said. Isn't that the point you made on an earlier post in another thread, that we should keep it simple and not get too wrapped up in all the indicators, patterns, etc?
Finally, I will be happy to post more observations on how Ken's specific style has worked for me but I will first state right now that I AM NOT KEN, nor do I have any benefit in making these posts other than to give my honest opinion based on MY OWN experiences. I just think CHartWiz's antagonistic and critical post towards Ken, particularly after the own bashing he took on these same boards, was sickening.
Guys! I am finding all this talk of trading styles quite humorous... just trade whatever is moving and apply strict discipline... jeez, all this debate is making me dizzy!
candle,,
The point of this thread are ways to find "what is moving" or "trade the trend" as you keep saying.
Of course "trade the trend", but you have not given us enough detail of your methods to construct a working model.
Would you care to share some details on how you do it?
ProTrader1
The point of this thread are ways to find "what is moving" or "trade the trend" as you keep saying.
Of course "trade the trend", but you have not given us enough detail of your methods to construct a working model.
Would you care to share some details on how you do it?
ProTrader1
Originally posted by candletrader
Guys! I am finding all this talk of trading styles quite humorous... just trade whatever is moving and apply strict discipline... jeez, all this debate is making me dizzy!
Candle, I agree with your thinking on this, but I think that the more we test various things that the more we will find "what works" - and then apply the better "parts" to our trading.
Trade well!!