Charging ahead to push electric cars

[GTS]

Quote from Rabbitone:
I retired from 35 years of autos here in Detroit. Electric cars have been tried many times in the past and been big failures. Some of the reasons are:
- Battery Temperature Conditions. Batteries have had a major problem when temperature varies outside of 40 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit. One too cold or too hot night can strip battery packs of power the next day.

To simply say that batteries don't function well outside of 40-80F is demonstrably false. You didn't even mention which battery technology you are talking about - there are many currently and more to come.

Limited Horsepower. A drive in the mountains with battery power could leave you stranded. The horsepower to haul around 5 adults in a car is not yet available.

That's a function of battery capacity, there is no inherent limitation with electric cars that will prevent this from being possible once the energy storage problem is solved.

High Battery replacement costs. When these batteries go a $4000 - $5000 replacement cost will scare any auto owner.

All they have to do is offer a 100k/8 year warranty on the battery pack just like the Prius has and it will be a non-issue.

High initial auto cost – The first electrics will cost over $40,000 a year. Not a vehicle you want to pay for to drive to the store and back once a week.

Obviously the price will drop as volumes increase and technology improves. Do you remember how much the first VCR's and microwave ovens cost? Gov't subsidies/tax rebates can help electrics get off the ground.

 

[hoodooman]

I've learned a lot today thanks to some excellent posts.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from GTS:


All they have to do is offer a 100k/8 year warranty on the battery pack just like the Prius has and it will be a non-issue.


[/B]

its an issue. toyota recently admitted they lose money on their electric vehicles. if they lose money now when they were getting a premium for them how will they be profitable when many more flood the market and they have to compete on price?

 

[GTS]

Quote from GTS:
All they have to do is offer a 100k/8 year warranty on the battery pack just like the Prius has and it will be a non-issue.

Quote from vhehn:
its an issue. toyota recently admitted they lose money on their electric vehicles. if they lose money now when they were getting a premium for them how will they be profitable when many more flood the market and they have to compete on price?

Your reply is a non-sequitor.

Rabbitone said that consumers will be unlikely to buy a electric cars because of expensive battery packs that wear out.

I replied that is not a problem if you put a long warranty on the battery pack so that consumers would not have to worry about that concern.

Given that context your post makes no sense. Are you saying that Toyota is losing money because of the battery pack warranty they are offering and therefore the battery pack warranty will be eliminated in the future? That is the "IT" being discussed.

Also if Toyota is losing money per car as you state, then why do you think that other car makers will be able to "flood the market" with still cheaper cars?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from GTS:

Also if Toyota is losing money per car as you state, then why do you think that other car makers will be able to "flood the market" with still cheaper cars?

long development times that are all hitting now,government mandates, and competition.

 

[blackjack007]

the energy-capacity problem of batteries is not likely to be resolved for many generations, as batteries have been around 100 years and have not seen the exponential growth curve you see in other technologies like semiconductors. and it's not like companies don't do research on batteries. everyone would love to see batteries with improved capacity -- the potential benefits to society is immense, and not just with cars. the only breakthrough i can see is with a nuclear-powered battery. the current technology based on chemical electrolyte won't rival fossil fuels for storage capacity.

since increasing energy capacity is not likely to happen without a radical change to the underlying technology, the other solutions to the electric-car problem would be to increase efficiency of the vehicle; and to build an infrastructure that can accomodate their weakness (eg, limited range).

 

[GTS]

Quote from blackjack007:
the energy-capacity problem of batteries is not likely to be resolved for many generations, as batteries have been around 100 years and have not seen the exponential growth curve you see in other technologies like semiconductors. and it's not like companies don't do research on batteries. everyone would love to see batteries with improved capacity -- the potential benefits to society is immense, and not just with cars. the only breakthrough i can see is with a nuclear-powered battery. the current technology based on chemical electrolyte won't rival fossil fuels for storage capacity

I strongly disagree.

Serious research effort into high-performance high-capacity rechargable batteries has only recently begun because previously there was no commercial demand - existing rechargeable technologies were sufficient for the intended purposes/products.

Lithium-Ions have only been commercially available for what 20 years and major advances have been (and continue to be) made.

You're right, rivaling the energy density of gasoline probably is a long way off (maybe never but I wouldn't go that far), however that's not required, especially since electric motors are far more efficient than internal combution engines. All that is required is a battery that is good enough to make a practical car, it doesn't have to match gasoline cars in terms of energy density.

 

[Sam Mcgee]

Quote from Ivanovich:

What about the flux capacitor? Won't that work?

Here it is already, no joke:

http://gas2.org/2008/12/22/new-patent-reveals-details-of-eestors-ultracapacitor-technology/

 

[Ivanovich]

Quote from Sam Mcgee:

Here it is already, no joke:

http://gas2.org/2008/12/22/new-patent-reveals-details-of-eestors-ultracapacitor-technology/

1.21 gigawatts!!!?

 

[Runningbear]

New ultracapacitor technology will make batteries completely redundent within 5 years. It's likely they will be lighter, have no heat problems and will recharge almost instantly. Not to mention the fact that they will have a life span at least 4 times that of batteries.

Runningbear