Channels

[frenchfry]

Quote from jack hershey:

... Channels may be incomplete or complete....

I don't recall that you mentioned this many years ago. But if some people knew that already at that time it would have saved some confusion. Because I think many people assumed from your writings that there are ONLY complete channels but then got stuck because they discovered that in reality there are also incomplete channels. "Damn... according to Jack a channel is Pt1, Pt2, Pt3 and FTT. But WTF!? I have Pt1, Pt2, WTF!? Pt1, WTF!?, etc.". It was called "Fractal jumping" at that time. But maybe you also only discovered the solution for it two years ago.

Quote from jack hershey:

I call it the 'c turn". The "c turn" is a turn whereby the sentiment shifts from one dominant to the opposite dominant.

What is the "sentiment"?
How can it be dominant or non-dominant? What makes it dominant or non-dominant?
How do you know that there is a "turn" from one to the other?

Greetings!

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from frenchfry:

I don't recall that you mentioned this many years ago. But if some people knew that already at that time it would have saved some confusion. Because I think many people assumed from your writings that there are ONLY complete channels but then got stuck because they discovered that in reality there are also incomplete channels. "Damn... according to Jack a channel is Pt1, Pt2, Pt3 and FTT. But WTF!? I have Pt1, Pt2, WTF!? Pt1, WTF!?, etc.". It was called "Fractal jumping" at that time. But maybe you also only discovered the solution for it two years ago.



What is the "sentiment"?
How can it be dominant or non-dominant? What makes it dominant or non-dominant?
How do you know that there is a "turn" from one to the other?

Greetings!

Please lookup terms like FBO and clean page 4. Also look around for interlocking fractals. A lot of the discussion that surrounded WWT was chat about various deviations from the common trending.

In the lst few years a lot of chat has turned to discussions of PA. mst of the above stuff was before PA trading became popular.

For most of my trading life I suggested that people do self discovery as a way of owning the methods that they used. This approach was too difficult to transfer in my opinion. So after that, I just gave the information away and described how to use it. I still feel it is best to review actual work results and carefully correct the messiness that comes up.

You are mistaken about introducing fractal jumping as a replacement for the four types of trends.

After point three of a channel it is always a good idea to pay closer attention to the remaining portion of a trend.

 

[jack hershey]

Sentiment is the trend direction. Long or short are commonly used to describe trend direction.

Moves in trends are either dominant or non-dominant.

In a long trend the dominant is long and the non dominant is short. In a short trend the dominant is short and the non dominant is long.

You may recall the expression B2B 2R 2 B for the three moves of a long trend. The short trend counterpart is R2R 2B 2R.

Also there was the matter of the bookmark. When a bookmark was violated an adjustment was made in the forwarding of the trend. The feature of annotating a bookmark was that it showed easily if a sentiment was being affected.

One of the things about making money is that to make money a person has to be vigilant enough to always stay on the correct side of the market.

By knowing the market sentiment at all times, a person can keep himself aware of when to take segments of profit and to then go to a positiion on the other side of the market.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from Look4aSine:

Active traders use tools that can be used in less than 3-seconds. You just wrote more than 3-seconds worth of blah, blah. You think traders here will actually read it? Can you please re-write it in 3 sentences?

I agree all tools can be used in a small time period. For me, I only use tools that operate within 10 to 100 milliseconds.

To put a tool into a person's mind takes work. To keep it there permanently takes more work. To give the tool facility takes an exteme amount of work.

I, as an expert, entwine 5 Orders of Events. So to keep ahead of the market, I use these OOE's before the Present in real time.

Having facility, in trading is much more demanding than you express.

All of the elements in each order of events has a name. The name is defined precisely mathematically. Doing the mathematics and finding the name takes 10 to 100 milliseconds.

But all of this is very rewarding.

You probably noticed how pleasant last Friday was. Between the open entry and bar 7 a person doubled capital. Then again between bar 7 and bar 18 capital was doubled again.

Of course it takes tools to do this. To give away tools a person has to write the method of the tooling.

As you suggest I need to write in few words for you so you can read about tools as fast as you need to use them.

Read stuff on off hours. Do drills on off hours.

Make money during RTH using the tools you can apply in 10 to 100 milliseconds.

I mentioned that taking profits is done on "c turns". All the "c turns" are listed in the Modrian table. The lookup for these is shown on one full page spread. You know where to look about 900 seconds before the "c turn" arrives.

So on Friday you held a short for 35 minutes then you held a long for 55 minutes. For every dollar you had at the open you had four dollars 90 minutes later.

Going from bar 7 to bar 18 required using the Modrian table four times, inclusively.

In this thread I wrote a few paragraphs. You learn the facts from the paragraphs and you do drills to get long term memory. With long term memory you see anything you need in 10 to 100milliseconds.

Are you still sounding out the letters in words or did you learn to read words in sentences.

Your next step is learning to read the market. Anyone can read the market faster than the maket writes itself. Maybe someday you will learn the alphabet and the words the market uses to compose itself. As you point out, you won't be learning it from me, however.

 

[tradingbug]

Quote from satchel:

Because the inside-line, the bottom trend-line (regardless of the angle) is doing all the work. If upwards channel, the channel line that is the inside-line is creating the advancement/force/pressure (not the outside-line).

Same with the opposite direction.


Triangles are channels in a way, both lines could be considered inside-lines, both lines angle and sustain the move. However, incredible power builds on these opposing pressures, and the triangle channel pops. (In a 'typical'/equal channel there is only one pressure line.)

What time frame do you use....indexes or stocks? Here is an example of a triangle for CHUY. The thing with triangles for me is that the top sloping line is continually fanned out until the formation/triangle turns into a FTP and breaks out. Whats the point if we continually fan the top trend line...doesnt help with entry imo.

 

[tradingbug]

Quote from jack hershey:

I'll break this response up into parts.



Darvas used space, shapes and change of shapes.

The most concise answer are his comments on his recovery from a NYC experience. (mid chapter Nine).

He told his brokers to just do as they were told. He only wanted one input. A daily telegram.

This is how skilled trading begins. Only one set of info is used.

Darvas was "discovered". He named what he did "Techno-Fundamentalist Theory". He had degrees in economics and scoiology from U of B (Budapest).

His famous quote below wraps the whole package very elegantly and neatly: " I just jog along with the trend trailing my stop lossinsurance behind me. there are no good or bad stocks, there are only rising and falling stocks. I can become a diagnostician but I can never become a prophet."

His most noted profession was dancing with a partne in clubs all over the world.

Making 2 mill as an amateur in 18 months in those times (1955-60) was unequaled in the public eye.

The daily process was to read the financial page of the paper, get the telegram data set and use a sheet of paper to study and analyze price and volume. He repeated what he did over and over.

So lets turn to the task of using data to construct a method of making money all of the time.

Be a dancer who studied people and money by using facts.

In a nut shell what Darvas did (chapter Four) is a parallel of PVT and picking the PVT Universe.

So lets convert a box to a channel.

How does one go about converting a box to a channel? What were the boxes Darvas uses....consolidation ranges(the pt2 to pt 3 range?)

Are the best entries when using channels just the right trend line or right channel line?

 

[frenchfry]

Quote from tradingbug:

...Are the best entries when using channels just the right trend line or right channel line?

What is the difference for you between "right trend line" and "right channel line"?

 

[frenchfry]

Quote from jack hershey:

...The VE you mentioned is a nice measure. You hold as the volatility expands and, simultaneously, you reset the channel points to extend the trend in its new regime....

What do you mean by "reset the channel points"? All of them?

What happens to the previous RTL? Do we still continue to extend it into the future while we draw a new, steeper RTL? The same for the LTL?

 

[satchel]

Quote from tradingbug:

What time frame do you use....indexes or stocks? Here is an example of a triangle for CHUY. The thing with triangles for me is that the top sloping line is continually fanned out until the formation/triangle turns into a FTP and breaks out. Whats the point if we continually fan the top trend line...doesnt help with entry imo.

The triangle you have is not the same as I had in mind. I had in mind equal opposing channel lines creating a triangle. I would not have created this triangle on the chart. However, what it is saying is the inside-line is accelerating, has all the power, established longer. The continually fanned out line is weakening. Price is being sustained on the inside-line. (Plan B: If the inside-line creates a break, we don't need the fanned out line to tell us that.)

I would have a LRC on this and use center and look for inside-line plays.

Better entries happen at the inside-line, it is what is driving price, demand.

So. what happens next.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from frenchfry:

What do you mean by "reset the channel points"? All of them?

What happens to the previous RTL? Do we still continue to extend it into the future while we draw a new, steeper RTL? The same for the LTL?

Thanks for your Q. If you wish put up a chart of a VE.

Pt3 of the original becomes a new point 1.

The VE becomes a new point 2.

Following the point 2 (the VE) you will see a "b turn" on the volume bars. By understanding the role of turns in market, you can easily relate the turns to the onset of the legs of price between the turns.

At that event, you have the new pt3 of the increasingly robust channel.

The "what if" that could come up for you is the context where the next turn is Not a "b turn". If so, handle the turn using SOP.

All trends are independent of each other. Prior trends do not have values that are part of present trends for decision making purposes.

All of this discussion is being done to support "frontrunning" the "HERD". The HERD pushes anticipatory traders.

To any profilers of trading types, our profile is designed to not be distinguishable from and "insider trader". As a person attains this level of expertise, he is identified by regulators who are making mistakes.

The only time a VE is not a continuation is found in the description of the A band Ag "x turn". A good example is 26JUL13, on the 10:45 bar. Any turn can have any turn category (a, b or c)

For each of the three End Effects sheets you are using, it is a good idea to collect examples of EE's. I keep about 6 of each kind because this gives me a variety of views of how an EE gets to be an EE. The examples also show the application of turns in trend type contexts.