Cbot Are Crooks!! You Must Read This Story!

to OP poster:
I remember that day very well because I traded the employment report and made some decent money - even bought something at 110-01.

The plunge down to 110-00 and reversal took less then 1 second - you can not arb anything with the pit in such a short time. This is quite normal on important data releases especially when dealers' desks are half empty.
So get back to the learning board and don't complain about ECBOT...
 
Quote from triggertrader:

i have been trading bonds for years. i monitor the job report,cpi, ppi and all the other major news which have a strong effect on the bonds in the morning and how the pit and electrnic move you never see a 7 point spread. that's insane!
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oh really? i doubt this. how many years have you been monitoring both the pit and
electronic moves during employment reports? you do realize during really fast moving markets there is no way the pit can keep up with the screen and that friday was nothing compared to moves that would happen years ago.
 
Hey Rockhead...the Treasury Bond futures trade in "ticks". The electronic market was 7 "ticks" off of the pit, during the payroll report on Good Friday. If the market dropped 7 "points" then you might have an issue. Perhaps you should have taken the $218 you lost and invested in a course on trading financial futures.
 
Quote from dhpar:


The plunge down to 110-00 and reversal took less then 1 second - you can not arb anything with the pit in such a short time.
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Thankyou. I looked at a 1 minute chart and saw the spike. You know it was a FAST "darn near instantaneous" move.

He needs to stop whining. Lick his wounds and Just trade the pit. It's obvious that is the chart he watches....

Side by side doesnt mean exactly the same.. Hell, even at close of day the Electronic at times differs a point or so from the pit. Get a clue.... I saw 4800 contracts move at 7:29 (the time of the spike) and another 4800 move at 7:30am

7 years and you made a mistake. 7 years doesnt mean perfection.. (it means completion if you are a bible scholar. LOL)

And you completed 7 years of experience with a BIG FAT lesson. Trade the chart you watch....

Honestly, I wouldnt trade Soybeans watching a Wheat chart. LOL...

Not trying to beat you up, but you keep telling us in your responses.... YOUR errors.
 
Quote from FullyArticulate:

I think you're missing the fact that the two markets are independent. The trades that occur electronically occur with a completely different set of people than the pit trades. They have a different bid/ask, a different volume, a different last price.

In other words, if no one is interested in arbing between the pit and the screen, the two would float completely separately.

The exchange does *not* keep the pit and electronic sessions synced. That's up to the people trading.

In short, someone pounded the electronic bond session to the point buying interest dried up for an extra 7 points. This has nothing to do with the pit. The only reason they resynchronized was because someone took the risk-free arb and went long electronic, short pit bonds.

The contracts are fungible, not identical.
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exactly. you're a 100% correct. they are independent. the problem is my broker told me that they move in the same direction and the ranges are the almost the same. boy was he wrong. maybe he didnt know himself untill this debacle. i mean there was always a little bit of a spread. i had instances where i had more slippage due to trading the zb and got filled where i thought i wasnt filled due to viewing the pit session data.
you see the emini's are great. they mimick their big brothers. this zb nonsense works independantly to a market which is supposed to be the same market. this is why the e-minis are such a success. the zb/us is a true conundrum. it just makes no sense how the same exact markets moves totally independantly from one another. its the only market in the entire futures industry that does this to my knowlege.
you see. the bottom line is if you look at a pit session chart you will see how much more stable it is. it has day sessions. it has open high low and settle prices. you have points of support and resistance. this is how you base trading decisions. i have made money trading bonds over the years using my system. i have been making money before this zb nonsense came along. i thought since these markets move in tandem i can use the zb and base my trading decisions off the stable pit session data. well. i found out thats not the case. i appreciate your input. good post.
 
Quote from triggertrader:

umm no you're the "tool" i have traded this market for years and have monitored the pit vs the electronic intraday. NEVER EVER has their been a 7 point spread between these 2 sessions even on the most volitile days.
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There wasn't that day either.

There was a 7 tic spread...
 
I should clarify I meant pit brokers ... not all brokers. I've never had a good fill in the pit.....

That said this is your own fault.....you need to understand how the markets you're trading work .... most traders get nailed in the beginning when they're trading a new market (or an old market in a new way) ... myself included. It's the cost of education -- hopefully it will help you make sure you don't make that mistake again.
 
Quote from woodrow:

Hey Rockhead...the Treasury Bond futures trade in "ticks". The electronic market was 7 "ticks" off of the pit, during the payroll report on Good Friday. If the market dropped 7 "points" then you might have an issue. Perhaps you should have taken the $218 you lost and invested in a course on trading financial futures.
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listen genius. the minimum tick in bonds is 31.25. that is the highest increment of any commodity future that makes it a point. you can call it a point or a tick. it makes no diffrence. this is the way brokers call it.
you obviously dont know how to read. i didnt lose $218. learn to read and then respond accordingly.
 
A broker that doesnt know how the markets move makes me nervous as well.

For those who take issue with his use of point versus tick.... From CBOT's site.....

Tick Size

Minimum price fluctuations shall be in multiples of one thirty-second (1/32) point per 100 points ($31.25 per contract)
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Ergo 1/32 point = 1 tick.. not 1 point = a tick...

So it does matter, you wouldn't call a byte a bit and expect the "same" result....
 
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