Cars that could help GM survive

5

5Pillars

Holden HSV GTS (current pontiac GTO is a Holden Monaro from Aussie land)............

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2788489&page=1


This car is just damn mean looking and I love it!!!

http://www.hsv.com.au/index_eseries.asp


Here is a possible new Chevy Lumina SS (another Holden product) that was just spotted in MI doing some testing........video link below.....

http://forums.streetfire.net/showthread.php?p=136451

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2791136


The Lumina is so-so looking, but if the HSV GTS (Senator) comes over here as the new Pontiac G8 we may have some cool cars in the GM line up again.
 
Had great reviews on "top gear".
Anyone watch that? One of the holden coupes was rebadged a vauxall for europe (or something, that could be wrong), they were testing a new cadillac.

The summation?
"If you want a cadillac, buy a vauxall."
 
I have some strong feelings about GM myself, and could not agree with you more. GM needs to reshape their product line, like yesterday.

I am a lifelong GM guy, and currently own 3 GM products including a couple of Tahoe's. When gas hit $3+ I bailed on GM and bought a couple of used Honda Civic's for my kids. They are getting 45+mpg on the highway with those Civic HX's.

GM cannot afford to loose the entire entry level and high mileage market and have a positive future growth rate. I have gone over those Honda's with a fine toothed comb, and they are great transportation vehicles, and fun to drive.

I knew GM might have a problem when I asked my kids to borrow their cars to go for a spin! Even I wince at a near C-note to refuel my Tahoes...

The good news, is I think we are going to the model of more vehicles owned per family. One large comfortable long distance vehicle for the family, that now only gets driven on trips and family outings; and little fun urban transports for daily commuting and errand running.
 
Quote from bigmoose:

I have some strong feelings about GM myself, and could not agree with you more. GM needs to reshape their product line, like yesterday.

I am a lifelong GM guy, and currently own 3 GM products including a couple of Tahoe's. When gas hit $3+ I bailed on GM and bought a couple of used Honda Civic's for my kids. They are getting 45+mpg on the highway with those Civic HX's.

GM cannot afford to loose the entire entry level and high mileage market and have a positive future growth rate. I have gone over those Honda's with a fine toothed comb, and they are great transportation vehicles, and fun to drive.

I knew GM might have a problem when I asked my kids to borrow their cars to go for a spin! Even I wince at a near C-note to refuel my Tahoes...

The good news, is I think we are going to the model of more vehicles owned per family. One large comfortable long distance vehicle for the family, that now only gets driven on trips and family outings; and little fun urban transports for daily commuting and errand running.
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...the power of the free-market at work!
 
Getting the Camaro right at the right price, alone will go a long way to saving GM.

1) Strong looks with good quality. Even threatning the Corvette at a much lower price

2) It has to crush all other muscle cars in performance in price range

3) Throaty but not obnoxious exhaust

4) Interior can't rattle and has to have a racy and classy feel.

5) Suspension has to be independent

6) Seats have to be comfortable for a range of heights and weight

7) It can't guzzle gas

8) Has to have rear seats so that insurance doesn't cost a fortune

nitro
 
Quote from nitro:

Getting the Camaro right at the right price, alone will go a long way to saving GM.

1) Strong looks with good quality. Even threatning the Corvette at a much lower price

2) It has to crush all other muscle cars in performance in price range

3) Throaty but not obnoxious exhaust

4) Interior can't rattle and has to have a racy and classy feel.

5) Suspension has to be independent

6) Seats have to be comfortable for a range of heights and weight

7) It can't guzzle gas

8) Has to have rear seats so that insurance doesn't cost a fortune

nitro
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I think looks will trump everything else. Let's face it, no one needs a Camaro. It has to have the right performance credentials, but the last gen camaro/firebird was a great performer. It was just flat out ugly, so ugly I could never bring myself to buy one. That is the same problem dogging the GTO. It is butt ugly.

Camaros now have a trailer park/Dukes of Hazzard image that could be hard for Chevy to shake. The BMW crowd would rather drive an Ion than be seen in a camaro.

I agree with all your points except for independent suspension. Most potential buyers don't know the difference, and it adds cost and very little improvement in real world handling. But it absolutely cannot have McPherson strut front end suspension. That will be a litmus test of whether or not they are serious.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I think looks will trump everything else. Let's face it, no one needs a Camaro. It has to have the right performance credentials, but the last gen camaro/firebird was a great performer. It was just flat out ugly, so ugly I could never bring myself to buy one. That is the same problem dogging the GTO. It is butt ugly.

Camaros now have a trailer park/Dukes of Hazzard image that could be hard for Chevy to shake. The BMW crowd would rather drive an Ion than be seen in a camaro.

I agree with all your points except for independent suspension. Most potential buyers don't know the difference, and it adds cost and very little improvement in real world handling. But it absolutely cannot have McPherson strut front end suspension. That will be a litmus test of whether or not they are serious.
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Independent suspension is critical on bad roads and in winter driving, especially if tied with an advanced traction control. While it will suffer a bit in corner to corner racing without a fixed rear axle, the benefits outweighs that by a mile imo.

I think that baby boomers turning 45-50 would buy the convertible in huge numbers if GM got it right, BMW driver or not. Younger drivers would buy the hard top on price/performance and stunning looks.

Ford knows how to get the Mustang looks right for both segments, but does a terrible job on quality and scares away the top segment. GM got them both wrong.

nitro
 
Quote from nitro:

Independent suspension is critical on bad roads and in winter driving, especially if tied with an advanced traction control. While it will suffer a bit in corner to corner racing without a fixed rear axle, the benefits outweighs that by a mile imo.

I think that baby boomers turning 45-50 would buy the convertible in huge numbers if GM got it right, BMW driver or not. Younger drivers would buy the hard top on price/performance and stunning looks.

Ford knows how to get the Mustang looks right for both segments, but does a terrible job on quality and scares away the top segment. GM got them both wrong.

nitro
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I think GM, for better or worse, has made the Corvette and Cadillac brands the technology showpieces. The original idea, and I think a still strong one, for the Camaro was to be a stout but basically low tech piece that was affordable. Maybe you are right and todays buyers will demand IRS, traction control, nav systems, etc. Personally, I think the target camaro buyer would rather have racing seats and a four point harness. Make it an edgy ride that has an outlaw appeal.

I predict Chevy will get it close to right the first year, particularly if Bob Lutz is on it, but after two or three years the marketing guys will have totally ruined it.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

The original idea, and I think a still strong one, for the Camaro was to be a stout but basically low tech piece that was affordable.
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That sure describes my 91. To me it is more important to have a car that I can crash and sell the parts for more than the car's resale value than it is to have the latest technology :D
 
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