Career trader's perspective on living off trading profits vs living on salary?

[butterfacetrader]

Correction, you are not a trader; you are a hobbyist!

Nah, hes right. You just have some superiority complex and playing on semantics of the term, but thats something you need to work out on your part. A trader is someone who trades. A trader says nothing about one's profitability. E.g. you can be a 'failed trader' and lose money, or 'super trader' and bank the bucks.

Reminds me of when 'professional engineers', but often only those who have a BSc in engineering, get angry about train conductors being called 'engineers' also and go on a hissy fit. Who cares. Its just a term. Learn to live with yourself and stop worrying about silly stuff like what a term means.

 

[butterfacetrader]

Hobbyist or not, if you place trades and put real $$'s on the table, your a trader no matter how small, demo account people are just hobbyists.


That's the technical definition that applies to sports and other activitys.

Exactly. I subscribe to this description too. Someone doing trades on a demo account is the hobbyist. Someone laying down real money on the line becomes a trader.

 

[Turveyd]

Nah, hes right. You just have some superiority complex and playing on semantics of the term, but thats something you need to work out on your part. A trader is someone who trades. A trader says nothing about one's profitability. E.g. you can be a 'failed trader' and lose money, or 'super trader' and bank the bucks.

Reminds me of when 'professional engineers', but often only those who have a BSc in engineering, get angry about train conductors being called 'engineers' also and go on a hissy fit. Who cares. Its just a term. Learn to live with yourself and stop worrying about silly stuff like what a term means.

Well said!!

 

[butterfacetrader]

----I'm always anticipating the day when my trading strategies will stop working and my intention would be to go back to my previous career. This also leaves me feeling somewhat insecure.----

i've traded same system for over a decade. unfortunately for me it not performing well today. not worth the hassle i should say.
due number of factors,but i believe the biggest one is direct fed intervention of the markers. if you system involves volatility, gaps etc you simply cant fight this:

straight line! volatility is all time low. NO GAPS! ZERO in 2013 and 14(oh....argentina default? no biggie-less than 1% gap down).
but on other hand-even if you employed (specially in private sector, something like IT field)-you will have exact same problems. your skills have to be up to date all the time and you can be unemployed at any time.the only sure thing that left is a working in certain fields for gvt.
something like a teacher at public school or a bus driver

Like an entrepreneur I guess a trader should be able to adjust to changing market places. If the strategy isn't working, might have to invent new strategies to make money. If you watch the documentaries on pit traders, it showed how some floor traders couldn't adapt when they transitioned open outcry to electronic trading. But some still make it when they adapt. Some just can't adapt because they were used to the chaos in the open outcry system and found an edge that they lost with electronic trading. Evolving to survive is important I guess.

 

[Turveyd]

Like an entrepreneur I guess a trader should be able to adjust to changing market places. If the strategy isn't working, might have to invent new strategies to make money. If you watch the documentaries on pit traders, it showed how some floor traders couldn't adapt when they transitioned open outcry to electronic trading. But some still make it when they adapt. Some just can't adapt because they were used to the chaos in the open outcry system and found an edge that they lost with electronic trading. Evolving to survive is important I guess.

I got used to trading, slow range bound DAX for weeks, Wednesday when it decides to move outside the range and start fast trending, although my method is setup to handle that, was a big of a shock to the system, nearly took a big account hit like BIG.

Repeated first trade on Thursday, took the day off to think on it.

Watched the action on Friday am for the new market conditions then, then adapted and overcome and made some good $$$ Friday PM.

If you can't adapt, don't even think of making a living off this.

 

[butterfacetrader]

Haven't had a Salaried job in approx 19years, or the 9-5 drudge that goes with it I'm happy to say, 19years of self employeed, I was hoping to be full time trader by last xmas / April 2014, so behind schedule still 2 - 3 months out which will likely stretch into end of the year depending on work load.

Nothing in the universe is certain, if you get GOOD at trading, I mean really really GOOD then, maybe Trading profits can actually be more secure than J.O.B. ( Just Over Broke ), lets face it with a JOB your always just scraping through unless your a CEO or something.

Make enough, take enough out and put it to 1 side, for when bad days happen is my advice, cause bad days will happen, any plan that does not cover and expect SHIT HAPPENS is a BAD BAD plan IMHO LOL

Nearly there, if I don't go Mel Gibson first!!

A job is more stress free for most. I mean, jobs have stresses of their own, but people who work for a salary have no concept of the completely different kind of stress of having to be self-reliant to make a living like a trader or entrepreneur of eating what you hunt.

Some jobs have pretty good job security, like union jobs, gov jobs, or tenured university professorship. Its hard to get fired when you get into those fat cow positions because you are pretty much set unless you are a huge delinquent. Other jobs in the private sector are much more competitive according to market dynamics of supply & demand of a free economy. You can get cut easily from a decision from corporate to improve bottom line and it won't mean anything and thousands can be laid off. Or if you work deadbeat low wage jobs like flipping burgers, you are just as disposable too.

 

[TraderJoes]

Really, I believe it comes down to your needs to feel happy and fulfilled. If you can make half of what you made at your day job and feel happy without all the corporate politics on half your salary...then you are being paid equivalently. Remember the freedom you have as a trader vs. as a cubicle slave. Can a price tag even be put on that?

 

[tiddlywinks]

Hobbyist or not, if you place trades and put real $$'s on the table, your a trader no matter how small, demo account people are just hobbyists.


That's the technical definition that applies to sports and other activitys.

At face-value I agree. But if the "trades" being placed are initiated as, or worse, turn into "investments", then you are an investor. The IRS says so, and you will be treated (taxed) as such.

And demo accounts. They are not a factor regarding trading as a hobby or not. Demo accounts have a place for hobbyists and non-hobbyists alike. If a demo is used with near exclusivity, "student" would be a more appropriate label than hobbyist, imo.

 

[Turveyd]

A job is more stress free for most. I mean, jobs have stresses of their own, but people who work for a salary have no concept of the completely different kind of stress of having to be self-reliant to make a living like a trader or entrepreneur of eating what you hunt.

Some jobs have pretty good job security, like union jobs, gov jobs, or tenured university professorship. Its hard to get fired when you get into those fat cow positions because you are pretty much set unless you are a huge delinquent. Other jobs in the private sector are much more competitive according to market dynamics of supply & demand of a free economy. You can get cut easily from a decision from corporate to improve bottom line and it won't mean anything and thousands can be laid off. Or if you work deadbeat low wage jobs like flipping burgers, you are just as disposable too.

Some are low stress, but myself and a work mate had nervous break downs due to work stress as a project out of our control went very badly wrong, 20years ago I guess.

Go full time soon, make enough $$$'s for some nice things for once, ie car, holiday few other treats and not to have to worry about cash every month then I'll be much much happier.

Something else will go wrong to compensate ofcourse, that's just life for you. LOL

 

[Turveyd]

At face-value I agree. But if the "trades" being placed are initiated as, or worse, turn into "investments", then you are an investor. The IRS says so, and you will be treated (taxed) as such.

And demo accounts. They are not a factor regarding trading as a hobby or not. Demo accounts have a place for hobbyists and non-hobbyists alike. If a demo is used with near exclusivity, "student" would be a more appropriate label than hobbyist, imo.

Being from the UK, that's only an issue if your in the USA

But yeah any long term suckers I mean holders are investors by nature.

I think student is only an option, if there undergoing some kinda training by someone else, then fair enough.

Hobby trader for years, although not demo $100 throw away account so might aswell of been demo.