Very true. I polled it, and most on ET seem to agree http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16386&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
CAPITALISM: I used to think the Republican side was clearly better...
- Thread starter Rearden Metal
- Start date
Very true. I polled it, and most on ET seem to agree http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16386&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
I don't get it. Just what is it about a government trying to better the quality of life of its citizenry that bugs you so much?
It's not as though these government programs just sit around doing nothing -- though I have no doubt you are convinced they don't -- they do, in fact, provide immensely worthy and valuable social services. Services that just about everyone benefits from.
I understand you've got an ideological bent that you're intent on clinging to. Fair enough, that's your choice. But you needn't be so depressed just yet -- your country lags far behind those European "hell holes" in terms of social services and public expenditure; so you'll the supposed 'fascism' a long way in the distance before it hits your shores.
No, you really don't get it....and I'm having a hard time thinking of a way to summerize a complex concept.
Basically, I believe in freedom for all individuals. You libs are so concerned about minority's rights but you forget that the smallest 'minority group' in the world is the individual.
When you force an individual to pay a significant share of his income/productivity to 'the collective' , for the 'good of the people', you are enslaving him to everyone else against his will.
There is no actually entity called 'society', there are only individual people...who's rights and property should be respected.
Once the government starts taking money from some and giving it away to others, who is to say what is really 'for the good of the people'? Your tax money was used for a war you strongly opposed... 'for the good of the people'. The American government locks up people for decades for victimless, harmless 'drug crimes'- spending billions of your dollars to incarcerate more people per capita then any other country in the world. They do this because they have decided that it 'benefits society' to take your hard earned money and spend it locking up political prisoners. That is money directly out of YOUR POCKET, don't you get it?
Socialism/statism is only 'Communism Light' Do I really need to point out historical examples of why communism can't possibly work? The philosophy of 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs' will only reward need, and penalize ability. When a good worker is paid the same as a bad worker...why be a good worker?
On a less philisophical level, when government controls the 'bettering of life for citizens' there is tremendous WASTE. Always. My recent property tax bill had $511 towards the library alone. Now I don't even use the librarary at all- I choose to buy my books to read them in my timeframe, but even if I did, would I ever concievingly pay $511/year for a private book borrowing club? A private business offering such poor terms for their services goes out of business within a year, yet the government wastes and wastes, and never goes out of business.
There is more, so much more....if you're unwilling to read Ayn Rand, I suppose I could find a decent summery somewhere on the net to clarify my ramblings...
I once heard Rush Limbaugh tell this long rambling story about grocery carts...never mind the details...it was stupid, but the punchline to the whole silly thing was this: Rush said that he had to agree with his wife, that 5% of the people (like him) support the other 95%.
Now, do you have the mental image of Rush, a 'radio personality' supporting all of us little worthless people? This is the kind of arrogance that comes from the libertarian and neocon types. It is so facile and shallow, you have to think these people have never really lived in the real world.
g
I too have a certain sense of frustration with where I see the country headed, but perhaps from a little different bent.
As I have said probably a few times before that I would prefer to see a national sales tax replace our current system. This would replace our current system of forms and deductions and add backs, etc. etc.
Further this would force people to decide what they want to spend or need to spend money on. For instance under the current system a Hummer, or Escalade carries an entirely different set of deduction rules than a Jeep Cherokee for small business owners. That sort of wink wink nod nod is horseshit.
On the other side if our government is to help people, which I think is a purpose of government then it should be based on good decisions first and bad decisions second. For instance a 17 year old lady living in a housing project who gets pregnant will receive certain welfare benefits. However if the same girl gets good grades and stays out of trouble our country really does little to help this person get ahead. Given the two I would rather my tax dollars fund the second girls education.
As for the issue though of the well to do paying too much. If you take a guy like George Soros who came from humble origins you see he is very generous because he has seen both sides as it were. Then you take a guy like Donald Trump who's father was worth $30,000,000 talking about capitalism and opportunity. Please, his father even had to help him a second time. Point being there are certain things we can't take credit for that affect our success.
I was born in America, white, in a decent home, and am reasonably intelligent and healthy. When I was studying for the CPA exam I buried my head in the books for 4 months and passed on the first try. About 20% of the people who sit do this. BUT and this is a huge BUT, I lucked out on cognitive skills. I have zero to do with my ability to process information. Some people could still be studying and never pass. And for those I have no problem sharing some of my good fortune. Preferably though for doing the right things.
As I have said probably a few times before that I would prefer to see a national sales tax replace our current system. This would replace our current system of forms and deductions and add backs, etc. etc.
Further this would force people to decide what they want to spend or need to spend money on. For instance under the current system a Hummer, or Escalade carries an entirely different set of deduction rules than a Jeep Cherokee for small business owners. That sort of wink wink nod nod is horseshit.
On the other side if our government is to help people, which I think is a purpose of government then it should be based on good decisions first and bad decisions second. For instance a 17 year old lady living in a housing project who gets pregnant will receive certain welfare benefits. However if the same girl gets good grades and stays out of trouble our country really does little to help this person get ahead. Given the two I would rather my tax dollars fund the second girls education.
As for the issue though of the well to do paying too much. If you take a guy like George Soros who came from humble origins you see he is very generous because he has seen both sides as it were. Then you take a guy like Donald Trump who's father was worth $30,000,000 talking about capitalism and opportunity. Please, his father even had to help him a second time. Point being there are certain things we can't take credit for that affect our success.
I was born in America, white, in a decent home, and am reasonably intelligent and healthy. When I was studying for the CPA exam I buried my head in the books for 4 months and passed on the first try. About 20% of the people who sit do this. BUT and this is a huge BUT, I lucked out on cognitive skills. I have zero to do with my ability to process information. Some people could still be studying and never pass. And for those I have no problem sharing some of my good fortune. Preferably though for doing the right things.
Rearden,
I'm quite fond of Rands writing, and am with you.
However, this thread, as someone else said, is
very depressing
Don't even bother with alfonso, he just doesn't get it
He is still an idealistic young 20 year old
(Ok, I freely admit i'm poisoning the well here... ha ha )
It's all about dynamics.
Punishing the hard working, driven winners, and effectively
stealing what they earn, and giving it away to
the undriven slackers in the world, will never work.
But enough of that.... that's not what I want to discuss,
so i'll drop it.
I'm so frustrated with both parties, that I would be willing
to gamble on ANY party other than the Rebs and Dems.
As crazy as it may seem to some people, I would have LOVED
to have seen Perot get elected as a social experiment.
What would have happened with a no BS problem solver
like Perot who cannot be bought? I wish I could have seen that.
Just 4 years is all I ask. How much damage could he have done?
Besides, he was a chartist
We get the same old shit with Rebs and Dems, and maybe
it *IS* better having BOTH of them in HALF power so
that they are kept in check, fighting amongst themselves,
and therefore limiting the damage that either party
could do when given complete power.
A sad state of affairs
The problem is, the two parties are so powerful, that
any third party is consistently ignored. People feel that
they are throwing away their vote, and the Rebs and Dems
both like to promote this idea as well, and keep the third
party out of the game.
I think most will agree that both parties have SUCKED
for a long time, and I think most people are frustrated enough
that they would be willing to at least TRY a third party.
How do we convince people that they are only throwing
their vote away if they CONTINUE to vote for the SAME
failing two parties?
Insanity is doing the same thing in the same way and expecting a different outcome.
~~Chinese Proverb
peace
axeman
I'm quite fond of Rands writing, and am with you.
However, this thread, as someone else said, is
very depressing
Don't even bother with alfonso, he just doesn't get it
He is still an idealistic young 20 year old
(Ok, I freely admit i'm poisoning the well here... ha ha )
It's all about dynamics.
Punishing the hard working, driven winners, and effectively
stealing what they earn, and giving it away to
the undriven slackers in the world, will never work.
But enough of that.... that's not what I want to discuss,
so i'll drop it.
I'm so frustrated with both parties, that I would be willing
to gamble on ANY party other than the Rebs and Dems.
As crazy as it may seem to some people, I would have LOVED
to have seen Perot get elected as a social experiment.
What would have happened with a no BS problem solver
like Perot who cannot be bought? I wish I could have seen that.
Just 4 years is all I ask. How much damage could he have done?
Besides, he was a chartist
We get the same old shit with Rebs and Dems, and maybe
it *IS* better having BOTH of them in HALF power so
that they are kept in check, fighting amongst themselves,
and therefore limiting the damage that either party
could do when given complete power.
A sad state of affairs
The problem is, the two parties are so powerful, that
any third party is consistently ignored. People feel that
they are throwing away their vote, and the Rebs and Dems
both like to promote this idea as well, and keep the third
party out of the game.
I think most will agree that both parties have SUCKED
for a long time, and I think most people are frustrated enough
that they would be willing to at least TRY a third party.
How do we convince people that they are only throwing
their vote away if they CONTINUE to vote for the SAME
failing two parties?
Insanity is doing the same thing in the same way and expecting a different outcome.
~~Chinese Proverb
peace
axeman
I'll say and it isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
Any of you guys have employees? The employee is pissed at you because their net check is so small. Then, you turn over what you skimmed from them by law plus your part as employer. Then, it all repeats on the state level. Payroll taxes are killing small business. Giving them a 50$ a week raise gives the employee what 15 more dollars? They think you're a jackass. And if you think 50$ x 52 weeks = 2,600$ more a year out of your pocket, you're out of your mind - it's probably 4K easy - just to give somebody 15$ more a week.
Is there any wonder non-farm rolls lost 94,000 this morning? I doubt GE or whoever paid withholding taxes in China on the peasant that made my Mr. Coffee machine.
Geo.
what we need is the " rational libertarian party ". taking rand's basic concepts and much of the current libertarian platform----- adding rational thought to weed out the "pie in the sky" idealism--this would result in an executional program and would be highly appealing to many americans. what do you guys say ? let's get it rolling !
best,
surfer
best,
surfer