Capital Available for Traders

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Since Patak is offtopic for this thread, we should probably move that part of the discussion to the appropriate thread. But anyway...

Quote from marketsurfer:

is that there are traders successfully trading within those parameters for Patak right now. How do you account for their success?
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Success? When I see their numbers, I will account for their success. Passing the Combine itself is not a success, unless you like a paper trading diploma on your wall.

Success would be if they can make a living using Patak's capital. (By the way I wish them the best.) According to them, so far NOBODY has made more than 30K after 2 years of trying, so no, I wouldn't call that a success. Actually, the best advertisement for Patak would be to interview (and some disclosure) a few funded traders who did 3-4 months already and drew a few checks from them. At least we would have some real numbers to work with that way. But I understand if they don't want to disclose that...

Quote from Maverick74:

But he said if you had 100k in your account on a 50k, they would let you lose 50k without saying anything.
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I agree with you, that is a rather stupid idea. But since nobody came close to that, it is rather hypothetical at this point. And I don't believe him anyway... :)

Anyhow, because of the offtopic nature, I will post further Patak conversations in that thread....
 
Quote from Pekelo:

Since Patak is offtopic for this thread, we should probably move that part of the discussion to the appropriate thread. But anyway...



Success? When I see their numbers, I will account for their success. Passing the Combine itself is not a success, unless you like a paper trading diploma on your wall.

Success would be if they can make a living using Patak's capital. (By the way I wish them the best.) According to them, so far NOBODY has made more than 30K after 2 years of trying, so no, I wouldn't call that a success. Actually, the best advertisement for Patak would be to interview (and some disclosure) a few funded traders who did 3-4 months already and drew a few checks from them. At least we would have some real numbers to work with that way. But I understand if they don't want to disclose that...



I agree with you, that is a rather stupid idea. But since nobody came close to that, it is rather hypothetical at this point. And I don't believe him anyway... :)

Anyhow, because of the offtopic nature, I will post further Patak conversations in that thread....
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I've said this before and I'll say it again, the weakness in both models is not the model itself, it's who their targeting. I've tried to make this point over and over again. RAPA is going to attract arm chair money manager wannabes who think they can run a fund on the side for kicks and fun and Patak is going to attract young gun slingers that think futures trading is easy and wonderful and both groups are going to struggle. That is the problem. The models themselves are neither good or bad.

Let me give you a different analogy. Say you are a personal trainer at a gym. You are in perfect physical health. You have designed the best diet and workout program known to man. Guaranteed to get fast results you say in your ads. Now let's take two different sets of people. Group one are guys and girls who have played sports in high school or college or are generally in good shape with already good eating habits. Group two is a bunch of people who are fat, lazy and never played a sport in their life. Which group do you think from a probability standpoint would have the most success using your super workout and diet system? Probably group one right? Sure there will be some in group two that do well and show results and there will be some in group one that just have lost their desire from their younger years to work hard again. But pound for pound (pun intended) group one will statistically outperform. Both are using your super workout and diet program. But one group is more likely to succeed.

This is the main problem both Patak and RAPA are going to have. Their programs on their own are fine. And if they targeted group one, they would have outstanding results. Unfortunately most of their demographics lie in group two. And that is why the results will be less then desirable. I think Patak has a better "business model" and probably more a chance for random success. RAPA's weakness are there are two many moving parts and too many uncertainties. But they too will have random success stories. The mistake ET keeps making is blaming the model when they should be evaluating the end user more carefully.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

My old firm tried a similar thing with a real 100 million $ fund, with major infrastructure and institutional level tools for the traders--- had 120 plus vetted traders thru the door, all with strong track records, ONLY ONE survived as a profit center for the fund---all the other ones, despite their earlier success failed miserably. Based on this experience, superstars in this game are few and far between-- and if they exist, 100k allocation would be laughed at.
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Surf are you referring to Manchester Trading or LAC?
 
Guys I have been offline for a while.

I think there is so much speculation going on here about the kind of guys we are going to find. I have a simple philosophy lets see what the leaderboard attracts - that simple.

I would allocate money to Kevin Saunders who is at the top of the leaderboard right now based on what I have seen so far. Not sure if you have checked him out but he is far from a piker he is a full time money manager and he isn't complaining about the size of the allocation. For us RAPA has already achieved its immediate objective, at least in terms of its first allocation on 7 December.

My partners are serious players who have seeded hundreds of small time traders with their own money with some moving on to the really big league managing billions. We are not rookies I can assure you seeding managers is in our blood.

I picked up some discussion on the thread relating to the rules regarding our DD policy, I am not sure if that was discussion about some other product. All I have said so far, according to the mandate we enter with the trader he will have to continue trading according to the style that achieved his ranking. We have no intention of making a manager trade with a drawdown limit that will guarantee failure. Performance fees are subject to a high water-mark with no hurdle rate.

If a trader who tops the rankings has a max DD of 25% what is the point of allocating money to him with a DD limit of 10%. We understand that trading entails the probability of losing money, but we would like to think that our screening process and our money management skills will prevail. Time will tell......
 
Quote from nursebee:

go to your account, edit profile, paste in the link, take out the slashes and http
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It worked fine for 28 pages, and now problems :(
 
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