cannot believe that buffet sold a complex option ...

Quote from lemeeeplay:

Only an idiot would buy a 13 year option, especially at these volatility levels.

not to hurt your feelings but only an idiot except a professional who is in the insurance business would sell a naked 13 year option.
 
Quote from lrm21:

Its a european option and as such cannot be called in before expiration.

2019 and 2027

He got $4.8 billion upfront.

I love how people Monday Morning Quarterback, a man who has built and empire.

I would never take the other side of a trade if Warren Buffett was on it.



what does been a european option have to do with ANYTHING? who the hell would exercise them with 10+ years of premium left.

What i am saying is you can still trade the contract just like any other option contracts, you can also lock in the profit by opening up another leg against the position.

.............
 
You don't need to know any facts other than that he sold a big put earlier this year, and the market is down huge. Thus, the trade sucked big donkey balls.
 
Quote from rallymode:

Taleb buys tails not ATM. Had Buffett sold OTM he'd be filing for BK right about now.

No - OTM is less risky on a per contract basis than ATM.
 
Insurers underwrite far bigger risks all the time. Everything you said about counterparty risk applies to the people on the other side of Buffett's trade too. You say you'd never sell a put. Even if the premium was $30 bill and the max loss was $1? Ok, lol. But you're not a trader in that case.


Quote from mind:

i am very suspicious to this kind of trade. usually there
is an effect that fools the human eye. in this case for
example it looks like an obvious trade for buffet. but if
you take the current situation into account, how MTM
is bringing him into trouble, things start to look different.
what i am trying to say is that these products do not
only have a situation on expiration date. the cost of
holding capital against the daily VaR need to be take
into account as well - which they often aren't.

either you have a complete fool on the other side who is
willing to overpay an option, or it is you who is the fool.
and if you don't know the answer for sure: it's certainly
you. there is no free lunch. i for myself would never
ever do such trade.

my thinking is like that: in this size, you don't have
fools at counterparties (admittedly a conservative
assumption). and whatever price for the option comes
up, it is derived out of current market prices. directly.
it is the outcome of all products currently traded. but
it is seemingly so in your favor. and this is what i am
suspicious about. when the VIX makes a spike we
know that later months are reluctant to follow. when
the short end in rates fluctuates widely, we know that
the long end doesn't. whereever we have something
traded with high liquidity with some time perspective
build in, we know that this later point takes into account
all the in-between-action very efficiently. and my point
is that it is the same with this kind of option: what is
so seemingly in your favor is an illusion. or at least
partly. it is just a trade like everything else BUT it has
certain disadvantages, like MTM risks, counterparty
risks and so forth ...

finally. over the span of a decade our imagination of
what can truly happen is at risk of failing dramatically.
the world CAN differ significantly from now. just look
at the last eleven years. we had the LTCM, net bubble,
911 and now the assumed great recession. don't add
illiquidity of your instruments on top of that. and in
such products illiquidity constantly surrounds you.
some swap here and there, some fx hedge (maybe
the four indices where not US only) and so forth. all
of a sudden you have counterparty risk with various
financial institution. they won't fail all at the same
time your model makes you believe ... well ... this kind
of thinking is at the very heart of the current crisis.
 
Quote from mind:

no. there is no free lunch. this is a zero sum game.
actually adjusted for all brokerage involved in rebalancing
the hedges, it is a negative sum game. one guy looses.
it just might depend on the intensity of the analysis,
whether this becomes obvious or not. all of course IMHO.

The counterparty could hedge now just by purchasing S&P futures, getting a locked in profit. The market could then recover by 2019, leaving Buffett with his $5 billion premium. Both parties would make money in that case.
 
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