candle continuation patterns

Quote from NihabaAshi:



Intraday candlestick patterns cause the most problems for traders especially when trading the Eminis.

I usually avoid them because I don't like chasing prices via candlestick analysis.
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Recognizing candlestick patterns is a small edge successful traders have.....after awhile you just quit drawing lines. You see them in your head?

Some of this mornings Es 5min chart attached ~j
 

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Quote from jjordan:

Hi NihabaAshi,

You don't think gaps are continuation patterns? I'm
sorry you don't see other candlestick patterns that suggest
a continuation? I see nothing wrong with that PCLN chart? Lighten-up?

Here's another continuation chart...no candles...see patterns?

No arguments...it's silly. I'm sorry you object to my posting of charts.....I like to do it. I'll be happy to view your PCLN chart.

Best,

~j
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Hi jjordan,

I never said GAPS WERE NOT continuation patterns.

Thus, its a little unfair and uncool for you to imply that I said such.

(Maybe its a long trading day and you imagine I said that...I'm just teasing you a little jjordan).

Also, I never said there was anything wrong with PCLN...I simply asked you to post a clearer chart for us to see what you consider to be continuation patterns.

I'm sure there's no arguments about that fact and I agree...its' silly to be debating about things we never said.

Also...my comments are towards traders just learning a particular candlestick pattern...

especially when pete said he had no zero knowledge and he wanted someone to name a few.

I didn't bother to name a few because I was under the impression he had Japanese Candlestick books and figure he would read about them on his own.

Also...you'll notice in the below quote it doesn't say jjordan...

In other words, pete asked a question about something I'm assuming he's starting to learn and I responded to him.

Simply...if a trader is new to intraday continuation candlestick patterns...their difficult to apply and that trader is better off learning the basic concepts before taking on complex-dynamic candlestick patterns.

Quote from NihabaAshi:



peterfigliozzi,

Intraday candlestick patterns cause the most problems for traders especially when trading the Eminis.

I usually avoid them...

NihabaAshi
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Once again...the above comment was not towards you so don't take it so seriously.

By the way...you never pointed out GAPS in that particular chart....only long after the fact as in today.

Reason why I asked you why you were posting it and asked you to post a chart to show what you consider to be continuation patterns...

There are dozens of "continuation candlestick patterns" taught in many popular books and several more reversal patterns that are dynamic and are continuation patterns themselves that aren't discussed.

I've mentioned one such pattern here at ET in another prior thread.

Once again...I was questioning why you post charts in threads with no reference to the charts.

Last of all...pete was asking for explainations or trying to gain knowledge about continuation patterns...

I didn't want to post chart as you did and not even explain them to him especially since he was asking a question.

http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoo...thods and Ideas/Other Indicators/0725pcln.png

Therefore, if my asking for you to explain the PCLN chart that has no explaination on it...no commentary to the continuation patterns on...

sorry it bothered you and don't take it so personally.

Once again...there's a lot of difference between what a beginner candlestick trader sees in comparison to someone that's been using such for a long time...

best we post charts with clear info...arrow pointing to the patterns with some sort'uv explaination so that they can see what we are talking about.

By the way...I couldn't post a PCLN chart because my data providor (QCharts) has some sort'uv split error or bad data for PCLN...

In other words...the chart I wanted to post on PCLN to point out 3 different types of continuation candlestick patterns is useless.

I'm not trying to dodge anything here...
I still think some of those charts you post are unclear to those asking about patterns they don't know anything about...

Look at it this way jj...lets pretend you posted a question about Bullish Tweezer Bottom and you ask (example only)...

if anybody can tell you something about this pattern because you know nothing about such...

Next...I respond to your message via posting the below chart that contains no commentary...

http://www.ttrader.com/mycharts/display.php?p=14227&u=intradaystrategies&a=Trade Analysis 201&id=433

(The above is a trick question posted by you and shows something dynamic about Bullish Tweezer Bottoms...remember...this is only an example and pretend you know nothing about Tweezer Bottoms)

Thus, I don't object to you posting of charts...

I'm simply questioning how useful was that PCLN chart and a few others you've posted in other threads.

By the way...is my chart above about Bullish Tweezer Bottom useful to you?

:cool:

P.S. I'm still in a funny and sarcastic mood...borderline arrogant.

Thanks for posting that last chart...that's what I was hoping you would have done with that PCLN chart.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=306564

Below in this post you'll see my useless PCLN chart...not worth commenting upon after I discover what QCharts has for it.

NihabaAshi
 

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Quote from jjordan:



Recognizing candlestick patterns is a small edge successful traders have.....after awhile you just quit drawing lines. You see them in your head?

Some of this mornings Es 5min chart attached ~j
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Can you explain to peterfigliozzi how you trade those intraday continuation patterns?

In fact...what are the names of those continuation candlestick patterns you've posted in the most recent chart.

?????

Are you packaging these patterns with a breakout or breakdown strategy?

I think that's the info peterfigliozzi is looking for or at least wants more insight into?

Thanks for the annotated chart...a lot different and not ambiguous in comparison to that PCLN chart that prompt my initial posts to you :cool:

NihabaAshi
 
Come-on dude? I'm sure any newby can see and learn for himself, even speak for themselves.....I'm not trying to do anything but be nice? Not packaging anything....

Thanks for your charts and comments. I saw what looked like a lonely thread and tried to comment on the cool car picture in a less serious tone.......

Just for kicks here's your missing price data

Cheers,

~j
 

Attachments

Quote from jjordan:

Come-on dude? I'm sure any newby can see and learn for himself, even speak for themselves.....I'm not trying to do anything but be nice? Not packaging anything....

Thanks for your charts and comments. I saw what looked like a lonely thread and tried to comment on the cool car picture in a less serious tone.......

Just for kicks here's your missing price data

Cheers,

~j
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~j

I'm sure your a nice guy.

Also, the PCLN chart is useless to me eventhough QCharts screwed it all up...

mainly because I don't trade stocks.

However, I do trade the eminis and eSignal has some data problems with that...

something they've said they've fixed in the latest version...a latest version I have not tried yet.

NihabaAshi
 
Yesterday we got a technical bounce which continues
this morning with a gap up. It all started yesterday
with a higher low and then a reversal pattern
...then off to the races. Mark the gap and watch the
high pole for retracement or consolidation or continuation
maybe breakaway?

~j
a 5min OEX chart
http://share.esignal.com/groupcontents.jsp?folder=Moving Averages&picture=0808oex.png&groupid=225

follow-up
http://share.esignal.com/ContentRoo...ethods and Ideas/Moving Averages/0808oex1.png

Final snapshot
http://share.esignal.com/groupcontents.jsp?folder=Moving Averages&picture=0808oex2.png&groupid=225
 
This isn't in reply to anyone in particular, just thought I'd add my perspective since this thread is on candlestick patterns, in particular *intraday* patterns.

Candlestick patterns are generated based on the particular timeframe you are viewing. If you are looking at 5 minute bars, then you will get bars that show the activity during that time. Let's say you are looking at the bar that starts at 9:30 AM and ends at 9:34:59. You may have a particular candlestick pattern on that bar. But suppose your start time is altered by a minute in either direction. Is the doji in the first instance still a doji in the second or third?

With candlesticks, we get the problem of the timeframe creating the pattern in some instances. Why is this a problem? Is the pattern real or significant? If it is a significant pattern then in my view it should appear in multiple shifts of the timeframe you wish to view. For instance it would appear in 5 minute candlesticks starting at 9:28, 9:30 and 9:32. In other words the pattern would not be affected by the particular starting time of the bar. The same problem exists for candlesticks drawn on tick charts. One tick either way could mean the difference between a certain pattern appearing or not appearing.

I found when I looked at it this way and started analyzing candlestick patterns on multiple shifted timeframes (5 minute candles, starting 2 minutes apart), or even on multiple timeframes (like 5 min, 7 min, 12 min) that what looked like a pattern in most cases didn't show up as a pattern in other cases.

And when you start looking at multiple timeframes or start shifting the start time on the timeframe by a minute or two, you are really just doing the same thing as a moving average. So in other words I don't see any great benefit to using the patterns over what a moving average gives you. And I'm not that particularly fond of moving averages because of the time lag involved.

Anyway, there are folks who use candles well and profitably and I salute them, and I'm sure they will take issue with what I have said. I understand that daily candle patterns are more reliable than intraday patterns and so none of my remarks above were aimed at daily candlestick analysis.

I do look at my charts as candlesticks, not for the patterns, but for the easier view of the OHLC relationship.
 
Quote from TriPack:

This isn't in reply to anyone in particular, just thought I'd add my perspective since this thread is on candlestick patterns, in particular *intraday* patterns.

Candlestick patterns are generated based on the particular timeframe you are viewing. If you are looking at 5 minute bars, then you will get bars that show the activity during that time. Let's say you are looking at the bar that starts at 9:30 AM and ends at 9:34:59. You may have a particular candlestick pattern on that bar. But suppose your start time is altered by a minute in either direction. Is the doji in the first instance still a doji in the second or third?

With candlesticks, we get the problem of the timeframe creating the pattern in some instances. Why is this a problem? Is the pattern real or significant? If it is a significant pattern then in my view it should appear in multiple shifts of the timeframe you wish to view. For instance it would appear in 5 minute candlesticks starting at 9:28, 9:30 and 9:32. In other words the pattern would not be affected by the particular starting time of the bar. The same problem exists for candlesticks drawn on tick charts. One tick either way could mean the difference between a certain pattern appearing or not appearing.

I found when I looked at it this way and started analyzing candlestick patterns on multiple shifted timeframes (5 minute candles, starting 2 minutes apart), or even on multiple timeframes (like 5 min, 7 min, 12 min) that what looked like a pattern in most cases didn't show up as a pattern in other cases.

And when you start looking at multiple timeframes or start shifting the start time on the timeframe by a minute or two, you are really just doing the same thing as a moving average. So in other words I don't see any great benefit to using the patterns over what a moving average gives you. And I'm not that particularly fond of moving averages because of the time lag involved.

Anyway, there are folks who use candles well and profitably and I salute them, and I'm sure they will take issue with what I have said. I understand that daily candle patterns are more reliable than intraday patterns and so none of my remarks above were aimed at daily candlestick analysis.

I do look at my charts as candlesticks, not for the patterns, but for the easier view of the OHLC relationship.
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Thanks TriPack,

Interesting view.

However, what you've describe I don't know anybody that has tried to use it that way...unless I've misunderstood what you were saying.

Your the first trader I've ever met that's tried analyzing candlesticks this way.

From what I understood...your saying if your time interval is altered by a minute in either direction...

sounds like your saying your using a different chart interval than your 5min chart example.

Thus, if I initially started using a 10min chart interval starting at 0930am...that means I will see a completed interval at 0940, 0950, 1000, 1010am et cetera...

However...if I decide to analyze the candlestick formation that's forming at 0939am (1min prior to 0940am for the 10min chart interval)...

(altered or shifted)

that means I'm using a 9min chart interval and not a 10min chart interval.

Therefore...chart intervals I should be analyzing are 0930, 0939, 0948, 0957 et cetera

Isn't this like saying your going to get a different interpretation when using MACD (12,26,9) in comparison to using MACD (5,15, 7)?

Of course the info will be different.

Also, if your using a software program that starts at a different time...for example...starts at 0934am instead of 0930am and you want to use a 5min chart...

means your first 5min chart interval will complete itself at 0939am est...

Its time to get a new charting program because that's not normal if your software starts at 0934am (displaying prices) instead of at 0930am est (your missing 4 mins worth of data)...

(a software that doesn't collect history...starts collecting data based on the moment you log on)

especially if you want to properly analyze candlesticks.

Simply...I've never heard of anybody viewing...for example...a 5min chart interval in 2min sections...

that means your attempting to analyze a 5min chart and split the time frames into 2min, 2min and 1min...

Candlesticks were not designed via the method you've attempted to use them in the past...

I've never read anything like your description before.

Thus, if your going to use a 5min chart and you want to analyze lesser intervals within that 5min chart...

analyze each interval equally...not unequally...

Therefore, if I was going to break down a 5min chart into equal intervals...

I'll view a 1min chart...not a 2min chart because the last interval (1min) will not carry the same weight as the prior two intervals (2min).

Please correct me if I misunderstood what you were explaining.

Also...I've done the stats work based on my personal use of daily candlesticks and intraday candlesticks...

>>> There are candlesticks on the daily charts that are less reliable than intraday patterns...

>>> There's also candlesticks on the intraday charts that are less reliable than daily chart candlesticks...

Simply...I guess it comes down to what candlestick patterns you tend to trade.

For example...based on my trade methodology...

Bearish Engulfing is more reliable on intraday charts than daily charts while trading the Eminis.

Bullish Engulfing is more reliable on daily charts than intraday charts while trading the Eminis...

Lets breakdown my use of Bullish Engulfing a little further...

On the daily charts where its very reliable for me...I don't need a confirmation via a divergence signal...

However...because its not as reliable enough for me on intraday charts...I need a confirmation via a divergence signal for that Bullish Engulfing...

Note: There are two types of Bullish Engulfing I trade...regardless if its on a daily chart or intraday chart...one is high probability for profits and the other is low probability for profits...there are 3 other types of Bullish Engulfing I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

all based on my trade methodology.

Your trade methodology will obviously be different from my own...especially if we are using a different confirmation system...

Thus, our results more likely than not...will differ greatly.

Something I tell traders often...

we all use different trade methodologies...

For example...to a particular trader that trades pullbacks...he only looks for Ascending Triangle formations...

To another trader that trades pullbacks...he only looks for Flag formations...

Imagine if one of them say that pullbacks don't work while not disclosing their trade methodology for trading price pullbacks.

Simply...something works or doesn't work solely based on our trade methodology or the difference in such.

Here's something that happened between my spouse and I about a month ago while on a picnic...

She was trying to show me that the cloud above looked like a telephone...

I couldn't see it...what I saw was a shade or blind you put on a window.

Once again...I don't think candlesticks were designed to be used via shifted (maybe not a good word to explain this) interval analysis that produces unequal chart intervals.

I know a guy that uses 11min chart interval as a price action only trader (no indicators)...

he told me a few weeks ago that the volume in the last interval is odd in comparison to the volume in the last interval while looking at a 15min chart interval in which the Eminis closes at 4:15pm est :cool:

P.S. I think you should try analyzing candlesticks via equal intervals...your analysis should improve greatly (maybe not to where you want it to be at) in comparison to unequal (altered or shifted) chart intervals.

NihabaAshi
 
Quote from TriPack:

...I understand that daily candle patterns are more reliable than intraday patterns and so none of my remarks above were aimed at daily candlestick analysis...
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Something else I've mentioned before or hinted to such in other threads and in my prior post in this thread...

Candlestick patterns can be broken down into sub-groups.

What I mean is this...

For example...there are several types (sub-groups) of White Hammers...

I've mentioned one particular type of White Hammer to avoid or take profits very fast when an established resistance zone has been reached based on info in the prior candlesticks in the following thread via 3 different message posts:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20535&perpage=5&pagenumber=9

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20535&perpage=5&pagenumber=11

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20535&perpage=5&pagenumber=18

My point is that each candlestick pattern...has sub-groups itself...

these sub-groups may be based on candlesticks prior or based on a particular chart interval being broken down into equal chart intervals...

It's critical to recognize these sub-groups...such can only be done by analyzing and studying charts very carefully.

Reason why I mentioned that there are some Bullish Engulfing I would not go near (not touch with a 10 foot pole) while there are others I will jump all over without hesitation...

Same with White Hammers...Bearish Engulfing, White Shooting Stars, Haramis, Dojis et cetera.

Simply...there's a lot more to these little boogers than what we see on the surface.

Trading candlesticks via daily charts or intraday charts while ignoring these sub-groups or while ignoring what the other candlesticks nearby are saying...

will produce poor results at best.

This stuff ain't easy and is very subjective when comparing one trader's use to another trader's use because each trader has a different approach or methodology.

NihabaAshi
 
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