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canadian income trusts to be taxed
- Thread starter vladn
- Start date
Quote from TrendSailor:
Your government is yoking you to the burden of living for it as a tax cow to be milked.
You have two cows.
The government seizes both and provides you with milk. You wait in line for hours to get it. It is expensive and sour.
OR
You have two cows.
Under the new farm program the government pays you to shoot one, milk the other, and then pours the milk down the drain.
Quote from TrendSailor:
Any of you Canadians can tell me what happened to Fording Canadian Coal (FDG)? I am down over $10K (34%) since May and yesterday it was down 14% more after showing some slow signs of recovery. Holding Canadian Trusts have devastated my net worth in 6 months. Now with principal all shot to hell I am forced to stay long (5 years minimum) just to get my principal back from dividend flow. That time line is assuming the Robbin Hood Canadians don't outright confiscate US held securities to pay off their immigrants and social programs "on our nickle".
The company is a coking coal producer for steel industry. I have read horror stories that they had plenty of customers (China and other foreigners) but due to incompetent management they are not even able to find tires (supply shortage) on their mining equipment to get the coal to fill orders. In the interim customers have been getting by with cheaper lower temperature coal and ignoring quality of steel production and dumping inferior steel on 3rd world. I also heard that incompetent managers/directors at Trusts all over Canada can't manage their cash payouts. On one hand they blindly pay the large quarterly dividends to owners then realize too late that they drew down too much operations cash with the dividend payouts and then have to turn around and borrow cash (at high interest rates) to fund operations.
It sounds like you have a bunch of idiots managing your trusts and companies up there. While cash is being siphoned out the stock prices tank when investors see disaster looming on the books. Its like the classic "owners having their cake and eating it too" scenario with share price dropping each time they pay out the "Fat" yields and everyone thinking they are getting ahead and not thinking to the day they want to cash out and can only get 45 cents on the dollar to escape financial hell.
God I SO regret EVER putting a dime into Canada and trusting foreigners with my hard earned money...
TS
"Political Risk" - look it up.
I think you watched the South Park movie too many times. "BLAME CANADA!"
Quote from mskl:
Unbelievable response - but let me respond to the "liberal" comments.
FYI, most countries (including Canada and the US) have a tax law that states in a round about way that it is illegal to create a transaction for the sole purpose of avoiding "normal" taxation. Regardless of loopholes - it still could be deemed illegal by this blanket section of the appropriate tax code.
This - although hard to prove is what the IRS and Revenue Canada often attempt to prove in Tax Courts.
For example - there are many transaction done in the securities markets today done simply for tax purposes - as certain insititutions are treated differently under Tax Acts (i.e. Corps are treated differently than Pension/Mutual Funds). Trades can be done between these different entities that can increase both parties after tax income. This is ILLEGAL in both countries although there is nothing illegal about trading in the securities market.
One could similarily make an argument that these Corporations in Canada simply changed entities (to a Trust) for the "sole purpose" of avoiding "normal" tax. There obviously could be other reasons for starting a "Trust" thus it might be hard to prove - but possible. In fact, there has been some talk that the big Canadian Banks didn't go ahead with a "Trust" entity because they were concerned over it's legality.
Back to your meaningless garbage.........
Good response.
The trust tax thing was never meant...
As a means for Canada's largest corporations to avoid paying tax...
By shifting the burden to shareholders of trusts.
Also...
I feel like I'm the only person paying taxes in this Canadian socialist paradise.
And each and every one of you TAX EVADERS out there...
You too smart by half cubicle dwelling "outlaw"...
Or immigrant from some hell hole that came here and to suck my blood...
Yes YOU... tax-evading scum...
Everyone who knows you knows exactly what you are...
So kiss my ass... you pathetic, sociopathic parasite.
Quote from TrendSailor:
Good God its so sad to see that the liberal disease has worked its way into Canada like the mad cow disease did in UK. Only a liberal would think that somehow governments are entitled to reap the rewards of somone elses risk and innovation. Only a liberal would think that something that is owned by another is somehow owed in part to others and there is no concept of property or wealth ownership. No, only a liberal thinks that things that are accomplished for the benefit of one's self and family somehow belong to everyone else too; irrespective of what effort others contribute.
Some day son you will learn that it is the nature of all governments to steal wealth and blood and sweat and time (and even flesh and children) from its own people. Its the same old share cropper and knight system scaled up from medieval times that you have right now in Canada. Someday you will realize that you are on an economic treadmill that leads no nowhere but self paced busy work. Such that can not see their plight will never get out of their mortgage liabilities or enough economically ahead to every unshackle yourself from economic slavery. Such thinking perhaps deserves exactly this kind of limited form of existence and slavery. Your government is yoking you to the burden of living for it as a tax cow to be milked. It's really that simple. Just as soon as you get a little bit ahead they will increase your taxes and give you more "services" that you do not need or want. Without free enterprise and innovation the government will become the large inefficient tit from which all must sup from. That will make it grow ever bigger and tax ever more as it creates codependency after new co-dependency to enslave itself as well as its protected serfs.
Look down the road to where this is all headed. Eventually when your country becomes totally socialistic, and its just a matter of time, as people see that they are taxed for everything they do they will simply stop working. They will see their countrymen taking handouts and then only put out a token effort to produce. After all, why work HARD when big government will provide?
There will be no reward for differences in productivity or achievement - so all will become net takers of government. Government will become the big employer. Innovation and excellence will flee from mediocrity to other places and nations. Wealth will migrate and the country will eventually implode for lack of substance. The pattern has started already and Canadians look like they are quite content in being perpetual wards of the state to be put out to pasture to be milked. Learn the game then profit by it before its too late. BTW America is headed down this path to - just more slowly.
TS
You obviously know nothing about Canada or it's politics. Your comments are all just about venting over your loss. Get the emotion out of trading and investing. The sooner the better.
Oh come on have a heart. That was 15% on top of a prior 35% loss in one of the Trusts from poor management. You would be crying too if you just gave up the equivalent of a Porsche Boxter or better to the likes of that sneaky snake Jim Flaherty. No that is not going to put me under but I was so looking forward to getting next year's new Porsche model or getting my wife out of her BMW and into the turbo Cayenne. Bummer no new toys till my other portfolio strikes pay dirt and oil and gold bounce back...Quote from lescor:
So you lost 15% of a 5% portion of your total portfolio and you're whining like a baby? Yeah, we all feel so sorry for you. I'm sure your senator cares a lot too.
I have since done the research on the full tax proposal. This totally blind sided large Canadian and US mutual fund and financial planners. The quotes I am reading show severe anger and betrayal feelings from managers. The actual text of Flaherty's statement does not look all that bad for Trusts that were trading before today. The total changes do not go into effect till 2011 for preexisting ones. They also gave normal corps a tax break to stay as corps and not try to become trusts. In a sense your gov just created a protected class and a scarcity which eventually will pay a premium as the intrinsic advantages of a limited number of pre-tax trusts get vetted out. I see opportunity for more than just a dead cat bounce after more foreign money scares out. There is too many billions of dollars committed to trust for there not to be some very grave political fallout from this decision and I expect some more capitulation and back peddling as that money threatens to ruin politicians professional and personal lives. If I was a betting man I'd wager some high level politicians commit suicide inside of a year as domestic pressures destroy family's and certain principals become socially isolated in parts of the community and constituents that lost a ton of money. This could completely change the political structure in Canada and will be entertaining to watch. I paid a premium for my entertainment ticket now I get to watch the drama unfold...
My advisors are recommending holding right now but they are very worried that other foreign countries with huge positions will be continuing to bail out over coming days and another round of tanking is about to unfold...
TS
Quote from TrendSailor:
Holding Canadian Trusts have devastated my net worth in 6 months. I am forced to stay long
Quote from TrendSailor:
This was only 5% of my total portfolio and I am well diversified. Frankly I have a huge cash position
Quote from TrendSailor:
[I am a]self made multi-millionaire...
Quote from TrendSailor:
I blindly trusted an advisory service
Quote from TrendSailor:
My advisors are recommending holding right now...I am forced to stay long
Quote from TrendSailor:
Having fun rattling your cage...
And we're having fun watching you respond to a trading loss like a 6 year old, crying and lying and threatening and stomping your feet.
Grow up.
Quote from TrendSailor:
The gambling thing in the US was extremely predictable given the abuse in the gaming industry and the generally conservative nature of the US and negative attitudes about gambling. Politicians don't want their constituents going into the poor house from gambling or having to go on welfare/social programs.
TS
Yup, they did it to help the people. You're hopeless.
Quote from traderNik:
And we're having fun watching you respond to a trading loss like a 9 year old, crying and lying and threatening and stomping your feet.
Grow up.
I was bored and annoyed at having this month's income wiped out just as I had developed a good cash flow system. Thanks for letting me rant. But I am not lying and your cut and paste job does not take into effect the position changes I made shortly after.
I just trippled down in 5 new trust funds and increased in a couple of others I already had. This is a slight gamble but I expect to make a net profit inside of 6 weeks. If that does not pan out I have 4 years before the full tax hit hurts and the increased yield I just bought from the sell off bargain should make the wait tolerable and profitable inspite of the tax loss. Cash is king and that's why I keep a lot of it in short term instruments. 5% return on liquid and very secure short term cash is not too shabby when waiting for new swing opportunities.
If you like I can cut and paste my portfolio right here and you can see the realtime net; it changes +/- $43K on average daily. But I really don't care too much to financially mingle with the junior players here unless you can demonstrate a comparable net worth.
TS
Quote from ArbProfit:
Yup, they did it to help the people. You're hopeless.
That's not what I said. Apparently I am too subtle for you. They did it to help themselves as politicians. Constituents with no spendable income after losses do not make political contributions when the volunteers go to calling for pre-election support. It also casts a negative sentiment and focus on mundane lower tier issues that cloud the principal political platforms. Try to expand your sophistication by an order of magnitude and you might discover that you are still standing and making noise in the minor league.
TS