Can you think out of the box: show that Capitalism REQUIRES Socialism :D

Maxprofit$ · Jan 27, 2005

Ok well we can't understand each others.

2 words: free entry!!!!!!!

With free entry all you said is not true. Without it then you would be right.

For the insults, blow me!

Random.Capital · Jan 27, 2005

"Free entry" doesn't exist. The first thing "Capitalists" do when they get an edge in a marketplace is atttempt to turn the edge into a monopoly through traditional business practices as well as by influencing the law making process to either legitimize their monopoly or put up barriers to future entrants.

The only way to prevent this is preemptive lawmaking, but those laws are from the socialist playbook, so you're right back to...

Capitalism needs socialism to remain viable.

harrytrader · Jan 28, 2005

Quote from harrytrader:

Let's say you are back at school and you have a provocative professor who gives you as exercice to write an essay on this subject

"The system makes believe that Capitalism opposes Socialism. Now try to think out of the box by taking into account Human Nature and shows why and how Capitalism needs to promote Socialism and profit from it with the power of Money."

Well done, I will give a collective note for your essay 15/20 so everybody is happy

CoolTrader · Jan 28, 2005

The title of this thread should be changed to: Capitalism requires Democracy, which protects the interest of most people. Capitalism without democracy can become a disaster.

drsteph · Jan 28, 2005

Quote from CoolTrader:

The title of this thread should be changed to: Capitalism requires Democracy, which protects the interest of most people. Capitalism without democracy can become a disaster.

Not sure I agree. Currently reading Fareed Zaharaia's book "The Future of Freedom" which appears to argue the opposite - that democracy(illiberal) does not protect the interest of most people. Consider Hong Kong, which was a thriving uber capitalist society minus the democracy before china's takeover. Ask me again in a few days.

chasinfla · Jan 28, 2005

Quote from rodden:

Quote from chasinfla:

the premise of the thread was to argue that capitalism requires socialism. capitalism produces and allocates; socialism produces nothing but redistributes what has been produced.

Socialism: community ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange.

If you were to budge from your strident absolutism a little, we might agree that production within the socialist context is usually less efficient than within the capitalist context, but production and socialism are not mutually exclusive.

More...

The idea of "philosophical capitalism" is a waste of everyone's time.

socialism hijacks and holds hostage by force human creativity. it produces nothing.

Bolts · Jan 28, 2005

Quote from chasinfla:

The idea of "philosophical capitalism" is a waste of everyone's time.

socialism hijacks and holds hostage by force human creativity. it produces nothing.

Do you think government breaking up monopolies is a socialist policy? And if so, please explain how you think it holds hostage human creativity.

chasinfla · Jan 28, 2005

Quote from Bolts:

Do you think government breaking up monopolies is a socialist policy? And if so, please explain how you think it holds hostage human creativity.

Please clarify the assumptions about government implicit in these questions.

Maxprofit$ · Jan 28, 2005

Government breaking up monopolies is a very much right wing policy. REAL right wing that is, not those ultra-conservative-religious right wing foney. The argument is one of economic efficiency, period.

Economists, that basicly invented right-wing thinking, all say that government is useful for many aspects of economic life. That is no socialism.

Socialist policies often create monopolies anyway, by government owned firms, by restrictive laws that make new creation of firms harder, by unions making hiring more complicated so they can keep their jobs and high salaries, by professional organisations trying to maintain scarcity in their field of expertise....

Think of medicine schools quotas and how hard it is to become a doctor. Like you really need that 95% average grade in school to tell someone he as the flu. A 80% would do as well. A car mechanic could be better than a bookworm to perform open-heart surgery since it is something that ask for good hands agility above all else.

Bolts · Jan 28, 2005

Quote from chasinfla:

Please clarify the assumptions about government implicit in these questions.

Well I guess you could use the US govt breaking up AT&T or their treatment of Microsoft as examples. I think they both show characteristics of socialism, even if in America we happen to associate that sort of thing with Teddy Roosevelt and the right.