Can you beat someone who religiously buy and hold bitcoin from inception with trading?

[johnarb]

There are so many stocks and other investment opportunities I have missed that no too much bothers me. It would have been nice to own a couple hundred bucks worth of six cent bitcoin.

As an investor (Years ago) I lived through too many meltdowns to be comfortable with them. The tech wreck was the worst as I had just started living off my investments. I didn't sell at the bottom and everything eventually recovered but I found I would sleep much better if I took some responsibility for how my capital was performing. Came up with a trading strategy that solved that problem. Kept me out of 2008 and 2020.

As for the taxes, I'd suggest you discuss it with your accountant. You'll have to pay it eventually and I doubt you'll be the richest man in the graveyard. I can tell you a couple stories about stocks I didn't sell because of taxes that didn't have a tax problem when I did sell them.

As a buy and hold investor, what are you doing on a trading site.

Bitcoin is forever hodl, or did you forget our convo a few weeks ago?

And Elite Trader is a site for speculators, traders and investors

Bitcoin is a highly speculative investment crypto digital asset, in case you did not know

If you can report me to the Elite Trader mods that I'm not welcome on the site since I'm an investor, I'll willingly comply to quit posting once I'm informed to do so

We do have an ongoing challenge and I find it odd, Sir, that you're trying to get me out of the ET site, are you afraid you will not be able to perform per your claims?

 

[deaddog]

We do have an ongoing challenge and I find it odd, Sir, that you're trying to get me out of the ET site, are you afraid you will not be able to perform per your claims?

LOL I certainly am a sneaky bustard.

Whether I perform or not won't make a rats ass bit of difference to either of us.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

Awesome! Hope you will show everyone here how traders of bitcoin can beat investors with your screenshots of your trades buys and sells

Use bitcoin spot etf's and not the proxies you mentioned in a previous post

Dont bother with naysayers. At the end of the day the point is to make money regardless of investing or trading. 90% of traders lose while 90% of investors makes money.

There is the saying "follow the trend", I can also say "follow the statistics". Human nature always like to make things difficult for themselves.

The surprising thing is I have lost a lot money actively trading crypto but for boring ass stocks (using my country equivalent of 401k) I was profitable from the get go. Crypto moves so fast that you really need a clear head if not over leveraging or overtrading becomes a problem.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

Too many "Ifs". If an investor bought at 6 cents why wouldn't a trader buy the same amount at 6 cents.

You seem to have trouble grasping how a trader operates. If you buy 100 shares and they double in price then give a sell signal you sell and have doubled your money. Now if price drops 50% , back to the original price you buy again but this time you buy twice as much, because you have doubled your money you can buy 200 shares. Can you see how a trader can end up with more shares than the buy and hold investor?

I know it's a simplistic explanation but by selling high and buying lower the number of shares or bitcoins you own increases with every successful trade.

Crypto market is 24/7 by the way. So as a trader do you 100% sell off all your bitcoin every evening?
What if it goes higher while you were sleeping? Buyback higher?

Since you are trading only during the day you are missing out all the upwards moves at the night bit coin makes too.

 

[deaddog]

Crypto market is 24/7 by the way. So as a trader do you 100% sell off all your bitcoin every evening?
What if it goes higher while you were sleeping? Buyback higher?

Since you are trading only during the day you are missing out all the upwards moves at the night bit coin makes too.

As a trader you follow the trend. When the trend changes you go to cash or short if you have more balls than I do.

I don't know why you guys can't see the possibility by throwing up a chart. There have been several uptrends followed by sell offs. Can you see any reason this is not tradeable?

 

[johnarb]

As a trader you follow the trend. When the trend changes you go to cash or short if you have more balls than I do.

I don't know why you guys can't see the possibility by throwing up a chart. There have been several uptrends followed by sell offs. Can you see any reason this is not tradeable?

Sir, I am still awaiting your masterful trader moves so I may learn

Please don't forget to show us with real money $250K your trades against the 5 btc investors

5 BTC investors on 12/6/2021 = $244,390

 

[deaddog]

Sir, I am still awaiting your masterful trader moves so I may learn

Please don't forget to show us with real money $250K your trades against the 5 btc investors

5 BTC investors on 12/6/2021 = $244,390

Hey John. Sorry to keep you waiting but I see no reason to take a position right now. Lets see how low it goes, then buy on the way back up. If it ever goes back up. I'm sure it will but let's wait till it makes a bottom first.

From my point of view there isn't a great deal of downside to being in cash at this time.

 

[HolyGrailSeeker]

As a trader you follow the trend. When the trend changes you go to cash or short if you have more balls than I do.

I don't know why you guys can't see the possibility by throwing up a chart. There have been several uptrends followed by sell offs. Can you see any reason this is not tradeable?

It is tradeable and you will make money from it. But there are too many variables and nuances to say for certain you will beat a buy and hold who got in at a good price.

Do you go 100% all in in your position size? If so what is the chance you hit your stop loss taking a large chunk of your equity and it bounces back higher? No worries for the investor.

If you position size say 20% to manage risk, how are you for certain you will catch enough uptrends to beat an investor who is 100% vested all the time?

Crypto is 24/7. If you are in cash and asleep and it goes up a few% what do you do? Buyback in? Over the years compounded this could mean a very big difference.

See what I mean? I realized the folly of trading crypto. Trading for stocks is okay due to it having regular hours and is much slower. Something much faster moving 24/7 and with huge upside potential should be a buy and hold.

 

[johnarb]

Hey John. Sorry to keep you waiting but I see no reason to take a position right now. Lets see how low it goes, then buy on the way back up. If it ever goes back up. I'm sure it will but let's wait till it makes a bottom first.

From my point of view there isn't a great deal of downside to being in cash at this time.

No worries, kind Sir

Please take your time no matter how long it takes. Bitcoin is difficult and has a lot of whipsaws. Price action has not been ideal for trend trading as of late

 

[deaddog]

See what I mean? I realized the folly of trading crypto. Trading for stocks is okay due to it having regular hours and is much slower. Something much faster moving 24/7 and with huge upside potential should be a buy and hold.

If you say so. I personally can't stomach the huge swings. Especially with something I don't understand.

I don't know how to value a currency (isn't that what bitcoin is supposed to be) that can swing 10% in value in a few hours.

I'm not comfortable with a digital currency that moves anonymously. I someone steals my coin, who do I go to? (I see some teenage hacker supposedly stole 46 million). He was caught and charged but I don't know what happened to the 46 million.

Supply and demand drive the market. I have a problem wrapping my head around what is driving demand. There is no doubt that there is a demand but what happens when it dries up.