Can i SUE a Brokerage for refusing me because of my citizenship?

[waggie945]

Yep.

Ever since 911 we now have the Patriot Act and NASD Rule 3011 and NYSE Rule 445, that all broker/dealer firms are required to have AML compliance programs in place by April 24th, 2002

Perhaps the broker/dealer that Nana was dealing with just didn't want to have to deal with his situation. But that's ok, this is the USA and business owner's do indeed have the Freedom to Choose who their customers are, right?

http://www.nasdr.com/money.asp#rules

 

[slammajamma]

Quote from Cutten:

I HOPE NOT.

Sorry but the USA, with some minor exceptions, is not a socialist shithole. If someone does not wish to give you an account, then the correct assessment of the situation can be fairly summarised as follows:

Tough Shit!

No one is obliged to open an account for you. It is every broker's right to refuse an account from anyone they think may not, all things considered, be profitable. In fact they can refuse an account for an entirely arbitrary reason. I'm sure they don't give a damn whether you are Iranian, Eskimo, or from Timbuktu. What they care about is the department of Homeland Security investigating their ass for having a potential "terrorist" on the books. Now whilst that may be a stupid policy (arguably), why the hell should they pay the cost for their government's racial/nationalist profiling?

Luckily, brokerage does not have the socialist commie pinko bollocks nonsense that afflicts private landlords and employers (where if you refuse a job or rental to a Wahabist machine-gun owning suicide-bomber wannabe, you can go to jail) - so US brokers still have the constitutional right to tell you to go leap off a tall cliff, regardless of your personal feelings, citizenship, ethnicity, or any other factor. You cannot morally *force* someone to do business with you.

Personally I find this "can I sue?" attitude morally reprehensible. It might be understandable for some black person in the 50s who gets spat on, bullied, beaten, and hounded out of their place of work. But for someone opening a f*cking brokerage account? What a joke. This whole cry baby attitude is just disgusting IMHO.

Open an account with the myriad of brokers who will take your business. Failing that, get exchange memberships and do it yourself. You have no more right to open an account than I have to force the ruler of Iran to let me open a brothel in his bedroom. But please stop whining and cease polluting this board with your complaints.

I have read your posts for a while and you seem a perfectly reasonable and intelligent person. I just don't understand how it can be at all justifiable to try to take money from someone, just because they don't want to do business with you. I will assume this is because you haven't really thought it through, since you seem a decent bloke. Please extend the same courtesy to the brokerage firm and their employees.

You have to be Iranian to run a brothel out of the leader's bedroom, and anywhere in Iran for that matter. At least you did when they had a Shah. And I always thought that that was an unfair trade practice but there was never an avenue of appeal to contest the Iranian brothel protection laws. Every pimp on the planet hates those laws.

 

[BlueHorseshoe]

Quote from lazybones:

Post 9/11 has changed the entire account opening process. My brother in law has a Middle Eastern and Muslim name. If you read into the Patriot Act, firms must fulfill tons of requirements in the account opening process. If you sue, you may have to go to the Fed level.

here a link

http://www.nasdr.com/aml_statement.html

This is likely the crux of the matter. Yes, American firms can generally turn customers away at will, but doing so can obviously be costly in terms of revenue and profitability, which in the end is all they really care about.

But the 'need to know one's customer' and anti money laundering regulations in the US have been stepped up dramatically, along the lines of all the headaches we hear about at the international airports.

Nana, you are an Iranian expat citizen living somewhere in the middle east. It is understood or assumed that forged or fake documents, from passports, birth certificates, to domecile documents are available for a nickle in the region you reside.

Thus, my best guess is that a senior CSR exec at the brokerage simply determined that they couldn't reach a certain comfort level with determining who you are and where your money is coming from. Quite reasonable IMO. To put it more bluntly, Iran is actively sponsoring terrorist organizations - who is Nana Trader and is he worth the risk? Possibly not.

If you really want an account with this firm, you might enquire whether this is the case and if so, how you might go the extra mile to demonstrate to them that you are just an average shmoe trying to make a buck.

But hostility and threats are a dead end.

 

[Nana Trader]

Quote from TRADERguy:

Nana Trader,

You might want to consider obtaining citizenship in another country and maintaining dual citizenship to avoid problems like this in the future.

May be i have to look into this in future, since today
majority of brokerage are accpeting account for Iran
citizens, but that might change soon, and not being
able to trade at all

 

[Nana Trader]

Quote from Mvic:

they are disorganized and their own CSR(customer service rep.) don't know their own firm's rules. You didn't know that before but you do now, why would you still want to do business with such a firm. Even if you manage to get an apology for having wasted your time it won't mean anything, it will just be some other CSR blowing you off. Things like this happen in life you can't take it personally every time, especially when you are dealing with a corporate entity rather than an individual, time to move on. You have nothing to gain pursuing the matter further just more lost time and money if you go the legal route. You are a trader, you know how to cut your losses. DO IT.

Yes, it just a wast of everything dealing with this kind of firm.

Even if today they accept my account, tommorow might they
close it again after dedicating so much time to learn about
their service, platefroms,....

 

[Nana Trader]

Quote from ElectricSavant:

What was the purpose with this post? This is a public board and this will be archived, if it does not get deleted....

If you want this thread to be moved to chit chat or deleted then say it.....come out with it...

Frames of mind and culture do effect ones attitude....Sociology then can be void according to you, Nana.....generalizations do apply here. This was just another attempt to present a possible condition. Instead you react defensive....why, Nana?

And yes we have bitches all over the world, My wife is a veterinary technician, and they call bitches a female dog....but my wife is not called that....now, lets see what you do with this last paragraph, my friend.

The satire continues...as this cannot be real....LOL


Michael B.

P.S. Baron, I understand that this is a global forum your marvelous site is participating in. And I fully understand your sensitivity to racism on your board. If you read my posts carefully, nowhere have I crossed the line, however I understand if you choose to delete this entire thread. There are attempts here to bait and to turn this into a racist discussion and please monitor this thread and quickly delete any bashing...

No, I want this thread to be right here, since this is serious
problems for traders from 20 somthing countries and they
can refer to it in this forum easily

 

[Nana Trader]

Quote from gms:

You're free to sue whomever you wish, the question really is, will you prevail?

You'll need to first pay for attorneys for representation and pay for court costs, discoveries, depositions, etc.

IMO, your claim for damages will be summarily dismissed. During those 7 weeks, you were free to establish a brokerage account with most any other brokerage firm. The brokerage in question did not prevent you from doing so. That it took 7 weeks is irrelevant, it's not unreasonable considering the circumstances. The circumstances are that a foreign citizen wishes to establish an account from outside the brokerage's country. Given that the brokerage is under obligation to be bound to provisions of the patriot act, and is therefore establishing procedures to assure compliance with that act, it would be difficult to prove that anything more than that, such as racism, or the time it normally takes to process paperwork or take such decisions to committee, was involved. It will be reasoned that if you felt at any time it was taking too long to establish the account, you could've gone to another brokerage. And certainly a company can change their decisions regarding whether or not they wish to establish an account, I don't think you'd have a legal basis to hold them to an initial opinion of suitability that they presented prior to the application process itself. Claiming "time is money" isn't the same as proving damages. You'd have to prove the exact amount of monetary damage, you'd have to prove how that monetary damage was incurred by this brokerage firm's negligence or tort, and that the brokerage firm was solely liable for that full amount.

Assuming the above, any attorney taking your money to represent you knows that you'll lose the case, but they'll end up with a sizeable fee out of your pocket. And if you think 7 weeks was a long time to come down with a decision, wait until you get docked on the court's calendar.

No, i will not prevail, and seems everyone agree with it,
espcially this firm is like a ocean and i'm like a drop against
them. But i will beat them up here when i get my chance and
when any issue rise up regarding whethere to choose them as
a broker.

 

[Nana Trader]

Quote from waggie945:

A little over a year ago didn't you have a "run-in" with the manager of a trading group here in the U.S.?

From what I understand, the gentleman that you wound-up "alienating" is in my opinion, a total professional.

While I can only imagine who the broker/clearing firm might be that has denied your application, I, like so many others on this board am rather puzzled as to why you would wish to be so persistent with a firm that does not want to have a relationship with you.

I am not surprised that a respresentative of the firm made a mistake. People in customer service make misrepresentations about their firm all the time . . . In fact, a customer service representative at Wells Fargo this past Friday told me something that was in fact, WRONG. Do I like being told the wrong thing? Hell no! Does it happen all the time? Yes it does!

Do yourself a favor and cut your losses.
Move on.

Thanks for your advice that tells me not to be aggresive
in responding and making desicions too quickly like with
regard to that firm, in the future.

yes, i have decided to move and look for other brokers.

I might sent you PM in this regard for futher info if i have a
need...

 

[Nana Trader]

Quote from Cutten:


I have read your posts for a while and you seem a perfectly reasonable and intelligent person. I just don't understand how it can be at all justifiable to try to take money from someone, just because they don't want to do business with you. I will assume this is because you haven't really thought it through, since you seem a decent bloke. Please extend the same courtesy to the brokerage firm and their employees.

Yes, i have extended my courtesy to them by not revealing
their name

 

[Nana Trader]

Quote from ertrader1:

I dont see NANA bashing anyone...just terminolog. I mean freedom of speech people.....what the F)*$, havent you ever read John stuwart Mills E_SAVANT?

Personally, i think Arab culture is fucked up.....yes i said that. I also think PC crying liberals like E savant are fucked up...yes i said that to.

I think all this sensitivity shit is crap......grow some balls, say whats on ur mind and be offensive...if you dont like what NANA or others say move on and read something else.

The PC culture which has been adopted by both the privite and government org. is a a threat to all freedoms.

So for all you 9 ot 5ers, all you mid level managment, higher managment and all you PC lovers....KISS MY ARSE........

FREESPEACH PEOPLE, if you dont like it, PISS OFF.

I hope i didnt offend anyone

What i can say