Can completely discretionary traders every succeed?

[easyrider]

Quote from cornholetrading:

Grob:

I started a thread awhile ago that eventually got off track and went a different direction. Anyway it dealt with the concept of trading by constantly being in the market and reversing your position. I think that was what you were talking above. I tried investigating it but could not figure out a way to make it work without getting chopped up during certain parts of the day. Maybe it was because I could not figure out accurate enough price points/signals on where to get out of a trade and reverse it. At times you have made it sound like it is not a complicated concept to figure out but I have unable to do so. I like the concept but have not figured out how to make it reality. Maybe you can share a little enlightenment on this topic. Although it is a little off topic for this thread but I thought I would mention it since it was brought up.

There have been several threads on the subject. Jack Hershey trading comes to mind. I think there was one named Seamless Continous Trading. It is a simple matter of drawing trend channels, monitoring price/volume, pace,dom, time and sales, squeeze and stretch, macd, and two stochastics which are giving hold/reverse, go/nogo signals on a continous basis as you traverse the channels through the hitches and stalls.

 

[version77]

Quote from easyrider:

There have been several threads on the subject. Jack Hershey trading comes to mind. I think there was one named Seamless Continous Trading.

And here is the link to that wonderous thread started by Scientist...


http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27213&highlight=seamless+and+continuous

 

[cornholetrading]

Quote from easyrider:

There have been several threads on the subject. Jack Hershey trading comes to mind. I think there was one named Seamless Continous Trading. It is a simple matter of drawing trend channels, monitoring price/volume, pace,dom, time and sales, squeeze and stretch, macd, and two stochastics which are giving hold/reverse, go/nogo signals on a continous basis as you traverse the channels through the hitches and stalls.

If that is the case I would rather not rehash it all here again. The thread will get too off topic. Actually I would have been wanting a simplier solution about the topic anyway. I think the approach above was far more complicated then it should be and rehashing it here would probably not help me much.

 

[martys]

This is the best thread I have read. Thanks Kiwi, Brett, and Joe.

Joe, your mentioning of observing the system signals instead of the random market actions keyed in one of my recent problems. I also tried to layer my trades on top of a mechanical system but as I come to recognize pullback pattern better than the computer... disregard for risks... I started wandering off and trade into the chops which the system will filter. I guess I get into trouble once I lose appreciation how dangerous the market is. Personally I don't think one should trade all the time because market is indeed random until emotions hit.

There is a lot to digest here. It is also a big transition period for me as I am trying to incorporate some bigger discretionary trades (difficult to execute with a scalper mindset because it involves seating thru some chops).

Again, thanks everybody!

 

[easyrider]

Quote from cornholetrading:

If that is the case I would rather not rehash it all here again. The thread will get too off topic. Actually I would have been wanting a simplier solution about the topic anyway. I think the approach above was far more complicated then it should be and rehashing it here would probably not help me much.

I was being a little facetious as there is nothing simple about it at all although Jack would have you think it is, but its about the same as Kasparov talking about how simple chess is.

 

[Grob109]

corn see attached.

it may be that ET does not take this word document composed on an XP level microsoft.

Others: please be cautious about starting to read this, it is expository and not spoon feeding type stuff.

 

[Remiraz]

only by luck me thinks. its very wild without solid rules.

 

[nzbryant]

Quote from Grob109:

...
The letting go is like an immersion...letting go of being outside the market and just slipping into the market's stream of consciousness and going with the flow.

Like launching and rafting along in an unsinkable float boat named "NOW". The more action the more fun and profitable the ride is.
...
I feel that your taking the effort to go to SCT is really an important trip. It certainly is like crossing a line in the sand across which you will never return. .....

It is hard to create expressions for what is to come for people; getting to the end of being "outside" the market just never comes up for most people.

Jack - you have helped my trading immeasurably. After two years of banging my head against a wall I have gotten it. Trading is 10% technical - 20% practice of those technicals, and 70% psychospiritual. You have nailed it above.

All the newbies will be saying - but how do we "do" that? Well, you dont. You "be" that (through wisdom and understanding), then you can do that. You can NOT do, before you be. It is so true.

 

[spect8or]

The goal is not just to be successful, but to sustain success.

In a game where long term success (say, 10 years+) is notoriously elusive, why even make it your goal?

It's hard enough just being able to make money in the current market, let alone trying to refigure things when the characteristics change (actually, they are always changing, and eventually these small changes add up and you're staring at a completely different market).

In the end, I think a more systematic approach is better (at least, you're less likely to fuck up with it), but over the long haul, it doesn't matter. The way you trade will have to adapt to new market conditions or you die, regardless of how "mechanized" or "mind/intutition/experience/recall" your approach is.

The way to make money, imo, is you figure out something that's working, develop some confidence that it is working, and then lay your bets. Big fat bets. If it pays off, you're laughing. If not, console yourself with the fact that you would probably have failed later, under different market conditions, anyway.

People don't like to hear it, but while market may not be completely random, at all times, it is random/chaotic/erratic/unpredictable enough of the time to frustrate the vast majority of traders, the vast majority of the time.

 

[SWScapital]

I think that as long as risk is kept constant it doesn't really matter whether your a systems or discretionary trader.