Can completely discretionary traders every succeed?

[Ripley]

Quote from steenbab:

They can verbalize what they're looking at, but generally they can't verbalize what goes into that feel. It truly seems to be the result of implicit learning.

Or maybe it is they don't want to tell you what they are doing.

 

[martys]

Quote from Ripley:

Or maybe it is they don't want to tell you what they are doing.

I think it could be more of a problem of convictions... It works for them because it is theirs.

 

[Boy Plunger]

I'm wondering why you compare shifting religions to shifting trading operations and plans of extracting profit from markets?

It is much easier to change a point of view and direction of a trade then to switch religions.

Also, you don't need proof or statements, what you need is a better grasp and application of the english language and the understanding that anything can be said about something but it does not mean you have to say it.

Broad terms such as discretionary belong on fox news programs.

Now, if you can solve the fourth dimension of time and space and how it relates to already fluent theories of quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity then you may start a trading thread.

It's driving me mad trying to figure it out perhaps your wisdom is better served for this purpose instead of writing gibberish.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[martys]

I think it is good to know someone can be highly successful in ways that I thought unlikely. I always think that doing the usual things everybody does is a dangerous thing and that goes to trading style or method.

 

[Holmes]

Quote from Cluseau:

Broad terms such as discretionary belong on fox news programs.

Correct.

Trading without a plan eventually leads to the poorhouse, me thinks that has been proven time over time.

Sherlock

 

[BSAM]

Quote from steenbab:

Yes, thanks, perhaps I need to clarify my use of terms. When I say that their trading is discretionary, I mean that they are not employing any formal rules or research to arrive at their trading decisions. That doesn't mean that their trading is random. Far from it. Some, for example, look at short-term patterns of buying and selling to detect when large market players are leaning in a particular direction, so that they can ride those short-term moves. The successful ones have an amazing feel for the ways in which volume hits the market and can sort out when moves are for real. They can verbalize what they're looking at, but generally they can't verbalize what goes into that feel. It truly seems to be the result of implicit learning.

To give one example, I have watched a multimillion dollar earner over many days of trading and can describe to you what he does, but I cannot duplicate his performance. It is a bit like watching Michael Jordan: I can figure out *what* he's doing, but cannot repeat his performance.

Good post steen. Thanks for further explanation. Goes to show that "discretionary" trading doesn't mean feeling/magic/mysticism. Seems like some who claim to be "discretionary traders" are slightly overrating themselves/fooling themselves.

I had a small gain today. Believe me, magic had nothing to do with it. I followed my rules, just like those skilled "discretionary traders" apparently do.

I'm not a real smart guy, but I didn't believe that fortune teller I referred to earlier either. For all the newbs looking in, it ain't about magic or "feelings", it's about dedication, an edge, etc. That's the real "magic".

Michael Jordan just made things look like magic......Or was that Earvin Johnson? Or both of them? Oh, my, it's all so confusing!!! /

 

[martys]

I thought in Brett's example.... There is a "feel" element that cannot be verbalized even though the trader can describe what they are doing... I would imagine the same trader can see what we "thought" is the same things at different times and arrive at different conclusions.

 

[Boy Plunger]

Quote from BSAM:



I'm not a real smart guy,



Knowing this is half the battle.

Like home depot says, "you can do it, we can help."


You're going to take one guys explanation of a misappropriated word and then thank him for his definition and insight based on your perception of what he actually said? How unlike not a real smart guy.

In your trading, you must maintain a level of flexibility.

Still referring to trading operations as a plan is a sign of upcoming success. You can make vacation plans but not trading plans that stand the test of time. In trading markets you need a good brain trained by making plans of attack that can be applied throughout perpetuity. The plans don't save you or make money, your brain does this instinctively once you have developed and are fluent in your data set. Then the magic can happen. People who have trading "plans" have a limited amount of time before the markets send them packing. Also, they lack the confidence to use their minds constantly and train the brain beyond anything they can imagine. You think the greatest chess players come to play with a single plan that is all encompassing? Or do they first, possess a gift, then nurture it to become fluent in play? Most traders have plans and i do not want to offend but i must state my point of view however limited it may seem to some.

 

[BSAM]

Quote from martys:

I thought in Brett's example.... There is a "feel" element that cannot be verbalized even though the trader can describe what they are doing... I would imagine the same trader can see what we "thought" is the same things at different times and arrive at different conclusions.

He did indeed, but he wasn't trying to imply mysticism, as others seem to express from time to time.

 

[BSAM]

Quote from Cluseau:

Quote from BSAM:



I'm not a real smart guy,



Knowing this is half the battle.

Like home depot says, "you can do it, we can help."


You're going to take one guys explanation of a misappropriated word.....

Clu.....

I don't really have a "clu" what it is, exactly, that you are trying to get across in your post. However, I will say that "no plan" = "no long term stay in the market". I do agree with your sentence you wrote concerning maintaining a certain level of flexibility. One's trading plan should always remain open to change and enhancement.

Ever heard the old saying, "There's more than one way to skin a cat?" Hmmm.....Where'd that come from anyway? I know exactly what it means, but I can't explain it. Whoa; maybe I am a discretionary trader.:eek: (Naw, just kidding.)