Can an average guy make a living at trading?

Ed,

Some guys are devils on ET. You will not get right peice
of advice here, unless you tell everyone on this forum
to PM, and you will see how many members are realy
intersted to help. Because they don,t want everyone
to see their ideas. They have right to do it, because
their ass got busted untill they become profitable

They do not mind posting here, because they improve
their ranking based on crap posts. You simply asked for
advice on how to get started, and they make it sounds
like nightmare to you.

Because there are tons of information available, and
going for the right source save you more money and time.
If someone tells you those books, CDs,... are crap, they
are trying to drive you crazy.

But somthing for sure, at your age it will be much harder.
You sould know yourself, how good you can be. It will take
you at least one year of very hard work and experimenting
your ideas on simulated trades.

I will send you my PM soon.
 
ED, if you are finanacialy stable, consider prop as an alternative.

Any and all experience helps develop a trader.

There are tons of prop firms that will take you in if you have 5-10k to put up front.

Jsut becasue 95 percetn of people fail doesn't mean that you are not good enoguh to be in the 5 percent tranch.
 
Quote from EliteEd:

Looking for help and information from the more experienced and knowledgable traders. I am 59, recently laid off and am looking for a new career to take me into retirement. I have been dabbling in trading for the last five months and even took an options course, but have had limited success. Can I really make a living trading, and if so what is it going to take, and where do I get the needed information or training?
I love the idea of being a trader, and have no qualms about sitting in front of my computer 8 hours a day. I think I can be disciplined where required. I am leaning toward equities and would prefer short term swing trading verses day trading. But, am really looking for what I can make a living at. I would appreciate any help and info from those more knowledgable. Listed below are some questions I have (assuming that it is possible to make a living from trading):

1. What are the best books, videos, web sites or cd's to learn from?
2. Are there seminars or courses that would be well worth the expense?
3. How much capital will I need to work with?
4. What are the more profitable or proven systems, and where can I find info on them?
5. Is this web site geared more toward the part time or the full time trader?
6. What are the best sources of charts, platforms, brokerages and software for swing traders?

Appreciate your help.
More...

I did some homework on you and I read you post about 6 times. I read all the other posts too.

When I compared you to people I have meet over the last ten years who were like you when I met them and followed their progress, I concluded that you could follow in their footsteps.

What they had in common was that they worked with one of W. J O"Neil's proteges.

So I recommend to you that you think about this a a possible path.

Consider leaving your current brokerage firm. It cannot be a resourse for you. Look over the list of people you took the options course with and find out, from among the savy ones if any of them are using a boutique brokerage firm. Boutique firms serve a narrow clientel who key characteristic is that the clients have brains and they are able to work with agressive brokers who are really sharpe. This type of broker is not found in the big firms nor the high commission smaller firms that do not well serve the needs of their clients.

Boutiques serve busy smart people and people who are aggressive investors who understand that there is a lot of money to be made on the market.

A boutique broler is looking for someone like you who has a normal viewpoint for pursuing skills acquisition and is not wedded to reinventing the wheel nor going back into prior mediocre performance to try yet one more time to do a half baked job.

A typical boutique will tell you how they operate. You will quickly find out when they go to cash and when they do not. When they go to margin and when they retreat to just capital. There are few or no boutiques that do not know what the market is doing.

What is in store for you. You will be mentored and as you are you will be told how you are progressing. All the while you will be making money but letting the boutique make money for you.

This is a very fast track thing. Boutiques are not looking for clients. Clients are trying to pass the test to get accounts.

You need to prep to take the boutique test. since you are not mentally "stuck" in a peculiar belief system, you will be able to get yourself prepped to pass the informal test of "joining the club".

Get completely out of your system the common mistakes people make. Get clear on how money is made by completing profitable cycles and get focussed on where money is made in the markets.

When you get into the mix. You will go through a sequence for making money. It goes like this; you will:
1. get a call where a buy is recommended to you.
2. make the buy.
3. get a call recommending a sell on that prior buy.
4. get calls on sets of possible buys from which to choose.
5. get higher risk sets of possible buys from which to choose.
6. get some requests on what you think is a possible buy
7. get these rejected usually
8. get your suggestions approved for your doing buys and sells.
9. get a trading desk line where you set your commissions for the trades you run.

During the various stages you get to you will be being coached by your broker. At some stage you will be cut loose to do your thing and others will be coattailing you in all probability. Along with the trading there is a constant viewpoint offered to you on what is coming up and how markets are trending. You will recognize it as a optimizing process to get you to equal or exceed the boutique performance modus.

There are boutiques everywhere. This post is a little helper for knowing how to assess the place you need to get to fast track your transition. The names of boutiques are usually the names of a few local people. Their purpose is uniform; they are composed of smart guys who broker for smart people who make a lot of money. Making money all the time is their trademark.
 
If you are seriously intersted in trying to make the leap to full time trading you should read the nasaa report below. It is a few years old but it is the best info we (average joe trader) have on how difficult it is for anyone to make a living trading because they analyzed actual accounts to see what the truth really was.

I'll post the link below, the main part to look at is the analysis of cust accounts.

Some guys are gonna tell you, that it can be done, that the sample in that study was too small or that commissions are a lot lower today, etc. etc, but the study the nasaa did was during the freakin gravy days, trust me, it's a whole lot harder today.

Back then besides the wide spreads, different firms had different technology advantages and everyone had an advantage over the average guy whose trade was still routed to Nite or some other third party. Today its a much more level playing field. That is why you you hardly see anybody post anything really good with regard to a technique, strategy, or software type services they use to gain an edge here anymore.

The truth is they can't afford to because the edges that still exist as so damn small.

My advice if your gonna try to trade and make a living is don't or atleast go into with the idea of "supplementing" another income. Trading profitably and consistently is the hardest job I could imagine someone trying to do right now.

Seriously, the turnover in this industry is unreal. Not only do traders come and go, whole firms do too. Atleast three have evaporated in just the last year.

Sorry to discourage. It can be done, but you asked about an "average" guy. IMO the average guy doesn't have a chance.

Ofcourse maybe your not "average".

Good luck either way.



:cool:

http://www.nasaa.org/nasaa/scripts/fu_window_display.asp?usid=0&ref=67

p. 53
 
Not wanting to put you off, but if you even start to understand just how incredibly difficult trading can be, how much you need to learn, and the incredible amount of hard work you will need to put in, then you are 1% of the way towards being able to make it as a trader of any description.

Yes - people trade successfully, but many more people come to the market expecting to make money and are very disappointed when they don't instantly achieve success.

I would suggest that not a single trade should be placed until you have proven a method that works well for you on paper and know and understand it to destruction. That would give you then the smoothest entry into trading, but it will still be a bumpy ride when there is actual money involved.

Most books are going to be totally useless to you, none of them will teach you to trade, and most of them will cloud the issue and confuse you into mistakes. Most courses are awful too, though not all.

good luck with it :)

Natalie
 
The funny thing is that this guy is asking everyone for advicw on his success possiblities as a trader.

Everyone on this thread seems to be refering to his success in the equity markets alone. Everything is equities, equities, equities.

Pople, there is more to being a trader than trading equities. People get so narrow sighted when it comes to talking about the markets.

We have forex, we have commodities and on and on and on.

To this getelman. Learn every aspect of trading, diversify. IF you are not narrowing your trading abilities to getting in and out of equties each day, there are plenty of chances to become a millionaire as trader even these days.

Do your homework, read, read, read, read, read.............

You'll be sucessful. But DIVERSIFY your knowledge of every market possible!!!!!!!!!!!
 
You do not know your ass from a hole in the wall.

This is the second time I have seen you demean others posts. Just give your opinon and let the original poster decide who's "advice" is "sound."

I think your advice STINKS. Is that how this thread should develop - by trying to posture my advice as better than yours?

nitro
Quote from Pumpanddump:

The funny thing is that this guy is asking everyone for advicw on his success possiblities as a trader.

Everyone on this thread seems to be refering to his success in the equity markets alone. Everything is equities, equities, equities.

Pople, there is more to being a trader than trading equities. People get so narrow sighted when it comes to talking about the markets.

We have forex, we have commodities and on and on and on.

To this getelman. Learn every aspect of trading, diversify. IF you are not narrowing your trading abilities to getting in and out of equties each day, there are plenty of chances to become a millionaire as trader even these days.

Do your homework, read, read, read, read, read.............

You'll be sucessful. But DIVERSIFY your knowledge of every market possible!!!!!!!!!!!
More...
 
OK.................. Well, not all of us spend al of our lives on here like you so sorry for the insubordinate info.

I guess you are the holy grail.

If you were, you wouldn't be here that is for sure.
 
Quote from Pumpanddump:


We have forex, we have commodities and on and on and on.

To this getelman. Learn every aspect of trading, diversify. IF you are not narrowing your trading abilities to getting in and out of equties each day, there are plenty of chances to become a millionaire as trader even these days.

Do your homework, read, read, read, read, read.............

You'll be sucessful. But DIVERSIFY your knowledge of every market possible!!!!!!!!!!!
More...

Pump

Let me ask you these few simple questions:

1. Are you successfully trading forex, commodoties, etc at the
present time?
2. Have you already had your chance to become a millionaire
trader?
3. Do you even trade at all?

If not, stop giving advice to other people and shut the f*uck up.
Trading is difficult enough without newbies like you giving dumb, baseless advice to your fellow newbies. Sort of like the blind leading the blind.
 
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