Holy fuxxing crap an area of 18 million....only 1 dead?
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California⦠roadmap to Socialism in the USSA
- Thread starter gnome
- Start date
Fact is as Illinois, Michigan and California morphed from safely Red to safely Blue the fiscal situation in each has become out of control.
The equation is common: Wealthy elites+unionized public employees+ indigent browns=destruction of the white middle class.
The equation is common: Wealthy elites+unionized public employees+ indigent browns=destruction of the white middle class.
Quote from Landis82:
As someone that actually lives in California, I would tend to AGREE with you. And make no mistake, there will be a reduction in services, resources, and some pain to go through for years to come.
But you also have to understand that there is a rather "Pro-Bush" conservative clan of Republican posters here on ET that can't accept the FACT that the Republican Party is in such shambles, has no real leader ( aside from Rush Limp-Boner ) and that Barack Obama is now President . . . and they are trying to highlight anything that is "negative" and can be attached to the Democratic Party.
California being a BLUE state, is one of their targets.
It's really as simple as that.
Quote from gnome:
California. 8th largest economy on the planet. Rich with industry, agriculture, and real estate. And look at the mess they're in. $40B in deficit! How did they get that way?
1. Government got too big.
2. Social spending overwhelmed the budget.
And that's in a "high tax" state. You read where they are planning to raise taxes to ease the shortfall.
You also read where many of the wealthy are moving to lower tax states. What happens if ALL the wealthy move to Arkansas? Who will be left in California to pay for social programs?
America as a country is traveling down the same path. The WRONG path. What we should be doing is encouraging GROWTH. Encourage international business to move their money to the USAâ¦. to make their products here⦠and employ American workers.
We accomplish that goal by enabling policies which are business friendly and tax friendlyâ¦. broadly based, lower taxes. NObama plans to raise taxes on business and the wealthy⦠encouraging all to leave who can. Others will follow when they "can't stand it any more". What will be left of America then? Who will be left to PAY for social programs? NOBODY, that's who.
AMERICA CANNOT AFFORD SOCIALISM!
You ultra-conservative finance types kill me. Warning of the "creeping socialism" in the US, when the tax rate of the wealthy has declined by two-thirds in the past 40 years.
How much lower to you want it to go???
The claim is always that "lower taxes" spurs economic growth for all. But you neglect that that is only true when that taxes are so high as to be punitive, as they were in the US some 40 years ago. The effect when taxes are moderate, like they are today, is negligible.
But yet, Dubai, a place that has no personal taxes, needs a bailout:
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/02/23/52757/one-emirate-for-all-none-for-one/
Seems as though they are in the same boat as my fair state of CA, yet their government is minuscule. How does this fact square with your argument?
Is the fact that the Gini coefficient has continually expanded over the same 40 year period (read: wealth inequality has widened greatly, consistent with capitalism for the rich and by the rich...no matter what you and Joe The Plumber blather about) not enough for you???
I bet, however, you support these massive bank bailouts (bigger than any social spending project in history) to save institutional equity and debtholders at the expense of yours and my great grand children on the basis of the "systemic risk" argument.
Big government is okay when it is there to save your butt, though you will never consider returning the favor.
"Privatize the profits, socialize the losses"
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeez
Quote from Landis82:
Let's face it, he has no idea what he's talking about - - - as evidenced by referencing and lumping Federal taxes in with California's so-called "high taxes". Everyone pays federal taxes. If that isn't twisted "logic" I don't know what is.
By the way, one of the reasons that the California State budget took so long to get done is because all of the "tax and spenders" are done after this next year and don't have to be held accountable due to term-limits.
That's why it took 3 months to get done.
Agreed. "CA has high taxes" compared with where? Missouri and Arkansas maybe. But not NYC or Washington DC. Compare apples-to-apples not apples-to-grape nuts!
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:
Fact is as Illinois, Michigan and California morphed from safely Red to safely Blue the fiscal situation in each has become out of control.
The equation is common: Wealthy elites+unionized public employees+ indigent browns=destruction of the white middle class.
If things stay on this path, in the not so distant future people will be saying "middle class? whats that?"
Quote from TraitorChris:
Agreed. "CA has high taxes" compared with where? Missouri and Arkansas maybe. But not NYC or Washington DC. Compare apples-to-apples not apples-to-grape nuts!
You are mistaken. State income tax in NY is 6.85%. In DC, 8.5%.
California is higher... a "high tax" state. (Not grape nuts nor any kind of fruit.)
Quote from gnome:
You are mistaken. State income tax in NY is 6.85%. In DC, 8.5%.
California is higher... a "high tax" state.
As someone who has paid taxes in both DC and CA, I can tell you all-in income tax is lower in CA.
Also remember that NY state tax you quote doesn't include Manhattan city tax...so that 6.85% is a very lowball number.
I am talking "what nets to me after I have paid everybody" tax. Not the quoted rates.
Quote from TraitorChris:
As someone who has paid taxes in both DC and CA, I can tell you all-in income tax is lower in CA.
Also remember that NY state tax you quote doesn't include Manhattan city tax...so that 6.85% is a very lowball number.
I am talking "what nets to me after I have paid everybody" tax. Not the quoted rates.
Are you saying that in New York, you have a fed income tax, a state income tax, and also a city INCOME tax. Yikes!!!
Quote from Stosh:
Are you saying that in New York, you have a fed income tax, a state income tax, and also a city INCOME tax. Yikes!!!
As do other places.
A point (miniscule one... actually it's not even a point worth discussing) is trying to be made that CA's taxes are "not the highest"...
The bigger point is that CA takes in a LOT of tax revenue. And in spite of that, they've still got a $40 Billion deficit.