California dreamin

[maxpi]

Quote from hermit:

Are you saying its the left that was responsible for the severe recession which almost collapsed the economy just a year or so ago?

Yeah you moron, they mandated that tons of bad loans be made in the ghettos and sent auditors to the lending institutions to make sure they complied...

 

[Mav88]

However, what do you do with those who are irresponsible?

You mentioned taking their children away at one point...I think.

Really?

So you do favor a nanny state to take care of the children...

For how long? How to take care of them? Put them in foster homes?

Seriously, I understand your frustration when people abuse the system (though I am not sure that is the truth in this case) but what is your realistic solution that will really create a permanent change?

First of all the concept of the nanny state is not referring to people on welfare. A nanny state is one that runs the lives of everyone whether they are on welfare or not.

Secondly, if you do receive welfare then your life should be under the microscope. Kids are taken away from people, nothing new there, just a matter of under what conditions. Certainly the woman getting a degree could be convinced to start behaving responsibly. As it is now her kids have little chance, getting that poly sci degree is a dead end. They would fare better with someone else.


The real solution is something really un-liberty like and i don't like it, but I see no other way as long most citizens want socialism. There should be a human breeding license, you cannot have children until you demonstrate emotional capacity and financial ability to raise them. Financial can be straightforward, emotional more complicated. Huge bureaucracy I know, and forced birth control means loss of freedom. This current path is worse, that's the problem.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

So the state should determine what education a person should get?

Sounds like Red China...

Quote from Mav88:

First of all the concept of the nanny state is not referring to people on welfare. A nanny state is one that runs the lives of everyone whether they are on welfare or not.

Secondly, if you do receive welfare then your life should be under the microscope. Kids are taken away from people, nothing new there, just a matter of under what conditions. Certainly the woman getting a degree could be convinced to start behaving responsibly. As it is now her kids have little chance, getting that poly sci degree is a dead end. They would fare better with someone else.


The real solution is something really un-liberty like and i don't like it, but I see no other way as long most citizens want socialism. There should be a human breeding license, you cannot have children until you demonstrate emotional capacity and financial ability to raise them. Financial can be straightforward, emotional more complicated. Huge bureaucracy I know, and forced birth control means loss of freedom. This current path is worse, that's the problem.

 

[..........]

Quote from Mav88:

As it is now her kids have little chance, getting that poly sci degree is a dead end. They would fare better with someone else.

I suggest you check the stats of kids raised in the foster care system


The Government would also have to pay foster care a lot more to raise the kids then giving the mother 1,000 a month

 

[Mav88]

Once again, if you are getting your education paid for by welfare, the program should be approved as economically worthwhile. I see nothing communist about that, communism is far different than that. If the woman had said whe wants paid training to be a porn star, someone would have said no and we all would agree that isn't communism.

If not foster care then some sort of military like community for the family which enforces disclipline. If you are getting paid by the taxpayer then the taxpayer should have some say in your life. It's no different than any other employer-employee situation.

The real problem is that liberals think you can solve all human problems with some government cash. They think everyone is the same, all we need is a handout to make things even. Several thousands of years provides a lot of evidence to the contrary, logically it is not sound either.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Four no daddy kids, Poly Sci student, lives in San Fran... welfare seems like money well spent. :eek:

 

[OPTIONAL777]

"If not foster care then some sort of military like community for the family which enforces disclipline. (sp)"

Really? What will that cost the taxpayer?

Quote from Mav88:

Once again, if you are getting your education paid for by welfare, the program should be approved as economically worthwhile. I see nothing communist about that, communism is far different than that. If the woman had said whe wants paid training to be a porn star, someone would have said no and we all would agree that isn't communism.

If not foster care then some sort of military like community for the family which enforces disclipline. If you are getting paid by the taxpayer then the taxpayer should have some say in your life. It's no different than any other employer-employee situation.

The real problem is that liberals think you can solve all human problems with some government cash. They think everyone is the same, all we need is a handout to make things even. Several thousands of years provides a lot of evidence to the contrary, logically it is not sound either.

 

[Lucrum]

"The real problem is that liberals think you can solve all human problems with some government cash. They think everyone is the same, all we need is a handout to make things even."

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Really? What will that cost the taxpayer?

Trillions

 

[Ricter]

Huge economic and technological factors are putting strong downward pressure on the standard of living in much of the developed world. It's little wonder that the ranks of the needy are growing. You, as the working poor, blaming the want-to-be-working poor (for their poverty or skin color) is ridiculous. Dogs battling under the dinner table for scraps.

 

[Mav88]

I'm glad you think I'm poor, then please have your buddies lower my taxes. And do you think someone getting a poly sci degree really has any interest in real productive work? I'd rather she became a trader.

yes, we are getting battered by globalism, however to use that as an excuse to blame the failures of liberalism is beside the point. To ignore the $50T unfunded liability in front of us because there are other problems is not wise.

I do blame people for bad decisions, like the one to have 4 kids without a daddy around. If you don't hold people accountable, then responsibility vanishes and any society fails. Economics is psychology, if you don't have good individual psychology then all else is futile. For example, Haiti will never be anything but poor so I would like to see Haitian style behavior discouraged. Our left however encourages it, I'm sure she would be held up as some brave victim who 'fought against all odds'.

Military style camps could be a much cheaper option that I think would actually deliver some results. For one thing they would have to help take care of each others kids while the other half either trained or worked. They would have to do all the grounds maintenance and there would be no drugs, pregnancies, or alcohol (that alone would eliminate half of them).

The current cash benefits system doesn't work, most everyone agees on that one. Clinton tried to revamp it.