California Bill Aims To Teach Kids That Russia Helped Trump Win Presidency

[Zzzz1]

Respect!!! (re your language acquisition) I mean it

Re Russia, you are speaking of the past. They do have something great going for them today, however. They have a deep bench of highly capable IT professionals in government, some might call them hackers, I would never go that far

Because I took an assignment and lived in Moscow for several years. No, I am not Russian by birth.

Your negative and prejudicial view of Russian is crap, if I may say so. The culture has a rich history, great literature and the people can be deeply emotional and feeling. You are way off mark with equating the government to all of Russia.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Respect!!! (re your language acquisition) I mean it

Re Russia, you are speaking of the past. They do have something great going for them today, however. They have a deep bench of highly capable IT professionals in government, some might call them hackers, I would never go that far

I'm not speaking of the past at all. You're getting your prejudices from the news and geopolitical happenings. Very few Russians are Putin. In fact, last I checked, only one is.

 

[Zzzz1]

So, who are the rest? Poor farmers, fishermen, oil workers, and villagers in all non-cities, many of them alcoholics. Then city dwellers who try to make ends meet living in Russia's middle class (aka lower middle class by Western Standards). A tiny minority of entrepreneurs and those working in the few Russian companies in middle management, a whole industry of thugs and criminals, and some incredibly rich oligarchs, without a single exception all of them enriched themselves in unethical, often even illegal ways. I would not be surprised if most every single oligarch murdered someone himself or at least gave the order to have someone murdered at least once in their "career". Every single one of them only got an opportunity either due to nepotism or otherwise networks that were not earned in a meritocratic way.

Did I miss anyone out of this?

I am not trying to be polemic. I have been to Russia many times, though I do not speak the language (though couple others). I have been to most cities larger than 500,000 people (which there are not many) and in many places in Siberia , the Ural mountains, several fishing trips near the Bering sea,... That does not make me an expert, but unless things significantly changed from 3 years ago, when I last visited, I find most people in quite dire conditions and need unless they are the very few lucky/intelligent/hard working ones who made it in the corporate/entrepreneurial world. All else earn their living in dishonest and shady ways.

I'm not speaking of the past at all. You're getting your prejudices from the news and geopolitical happenings. Very few Russians are Putin. In fact, last I checked, only one is.

 

[Tsing Tao]

So, who are the rest? Poor farmers, fishermen, oil workers, and villagers in all non-cities, many of them alcoholics.

Holy cow, it's quite interesting to see you paint an entire group of people with a stereotypical brush. Alcoholics, many of them, really...

Then city dwellers who try to make ends meet living in Russia's middle class (aka lower middle class by Western Standards). A tiny minority of entrepreneurs and those working in the few Russian companies in middle management, and some incredibly rich oligarchs, without a single exception all of them enriched themselves in unethical, often even illegal ways. I would not be surprised if most every single oligarch murdered someone himself or at least gave the order to have someone murdered. Every single one of them only got an opportunity either due to nepotism or otherwise networks that were not earned in a meritocratic way.

You've got it all figured out, do you? How many years did you live in Russia again?

Look, if you wish to form your opinion on Russians based on every news article you read, that's your business. I'm certainly not going to waste any more time trying to convince you how incorrect you are. Suffice to say, I've lived among Russians. I've made many friends there, and seen beautiful places and people. I've married one, in particular, who I fell in love with and still love to this day.

Sure, there are crappy things about Russia, as there are about any country. Where was it you were from again? Let's pull out some stereotypes about your people and see what we come up with. You do a good job of jumping the United States a lot on this forum. Let's spend some time looking inside your country...what was it again?

 

[Zzzz1]

I edited my post to add more detail.I have seen quite a lot of places in Russia and have been to Moscow many times in different years. None of my opinions and views are shaped by any media or news. Heck, I would have to search very hard to even find a single report on Russia on CNN or the like.

Beautiful country? Heck, it is absolutely gorgeous. And yes, many Russians are incredibly nice. I never said farmers or fishermen or villagers are not nice people.
But at the same time it is also an incredibly raw and brutal culture and society at times. Most every American professional football player would most likely get the shit beaten out by anyone who joined fight clubs and hooligan clubs that are spreading in Russia like wildfire.

Holy cow, it's quite interesting to see you paint an entire group of people with a stereotypical brush. Alcoholics, many of them, really...



You've got it all figured out, do you? How many years did you live in Russia again?

Look, if you wish to form your opinion on Russians based on every news article you read, that's your business. I'm certainly not going to waste any more time trying to convince you how incorrect you are. Suffice to say, I've lived among Russians. I've made many friends there, and seen beautiful places and people. I've married one, in particular, who I fell in love with and still love to this day.

Sure, there are crappy things about Russia, as there are about any country. Where was it you were from again? Let's pull out some stereotypes about your people and see what we come up with...

 

[Tsing Tao]

I edited my post to add more detail.I have seen quite a lot of places in Russia and have been to Moscow many times in different years. None of my opinions and views are shaped by any media or news. Heck, I would have to search very hard to even find a single report on Russia on CNN or the like.

Beautiful country? Heck, it is absolutely gorgeous. And yes, many Russians are incredibly nice. I never said farmers or fishermen or villagers are not nice people.
But at the same time it is also an incredibly raw and brutal culture and society at times. Most every American professional football player would most likely get the shit beaten out by anyone who joined fight clubs and hooligan clubs that are spreading in Russia like wildfire.

Finally, a more tempered response. You called many of the farmers and fisherman/villagers alcoholics to start. That's not true by a long shot. Alcohol is certainly a problem throughout Russia, but then again it's a problem here in America, too.

There are lots of hooligans and skin heads, but it's a lot less violent than the south side of Chicago. Russians are deeply emotional people - good and bad - they don't waste time with pleasantries and bullshit. The hardest thing my wife had to get used to was the way Americans pretend to like something or someone, and stab them in the back the first chance they get.

 

[Zzzz1]

Well, sometimes we can't do without facts and statistics. Russia has one of the highest alcohol consumption in the world. I think around 14 or 15 liters per year. That is not beer or vodka, that is consumption converted to 100% pure alcohol. The suicide rate is one of the highest as well among all other countries. See, there are great aspects about Russia but we as humans need at some point to average numbers if we ever want to make meaningful comparisons. And most numbers in terms of living standard and quality of life do not speak in favor of Russia.

Finally, a more tempered response. You called many of the farmers and fisherman/villagers alcoholics to start. That's not true by a long shot. Alcohol is certainly a problem throughout Russia, but then again it's a problem here in America, too.

There are lots of hooligans and skin heads, but it's a lot less violent than the south side of Chicago. Russians are deeply emotional people - good and bad - they don't waste time with pleasantries and bullshit. The hardest thing my wife had to get used to was the way Americans pretend to like something or someone, and stab them in the back the first chance they get.

 

[Zzzz1]

But back to the topic: I think if anything it will be California that can stand on its own. In fact California is de-facto supplying the union with billions of transfer payments each year.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Well, sometimes we can't do without facts and statistics. Russia has one of the highest alcohol consumption in the world. I think around 14 or 15 liters per year. That is not beer or vodka, that is consumption converted to 100% pure alcohol. The suicide rate is one of the highest as well among all other countries. See, there are great aspects about Russia but we as humans need at some point to average numbers if we ever want to make meaningful comparisons. And most numbers in terms of living standard and quality of life do not speak in favor of Russia.

No one was debating quality of life. We were debating the people.

I noticed you did not answer the question on your country of origin/residence.

 

[jem]

California became great when it was far more libertarian.

Not true, except in specific pockets in the Bay area or a few other spots. Of course you cannot compare living in Louisiana with a life in the sun shine state. But living costs otherwise are comparable with those in New Jersey, Oregon, Washington State,...

http://www.car.org/aboutus/onecoolthing/county/