C vs. C++

nononsense · Dec 5, 2003

Quote from axeman:

I dont think nononsense is longshot.

He is much brighter. Just passionate about his languages
like I was when I was a younger techie

peace

axeman

Hey axeman,

Dangerous for a software guy to be so nonchalant about your hypothesis! Maybe I could be your granddad?

nononsense

axeman · Dec 5, 2003

My granddad is dead, so I know for a fact you are not him.

As for longshot, its just a guess.
I never picked up on longshot being a techie, so I kinda
doubted it.

I cant prove if your longshot or not. Hmmmm... maybe I can

But do I really want to waste that much time trying to hack
ET to find out?

Aint worth it.

peace

axeman

Quote from nononsense:

Hey axeman,

Dangerous for a software guy to be so nonchalant about your hypothesis! Maybe I could be your granddad?

nononsense

corvus · Dec 5, 2003

Quote from nononsense:

Hey dude,

It seems you easily jump to rather funny conclusions. This is dangerous for a software guy! I hope your high-performance DB tasks didn't get at you! If you run into LongShot don't forget to ask him!

Seems like you have alot of difficulty getting along with others.

nononsense · Dec 5, 2003

Quote from CalTrader:

Pythons nice but not a single customer has demanded we work in this language/environment. For software products - as opposed to projects - the market still revolves around C++, C, and Java. Most of the project based work is asked for in Java and C++ and C and VB and its variants with little demand for c#.

As has been stated many many times before, there is no "best" programming language or environment. The market is fickle with respect to languages and even tools. It all really depends upon which vendor is yelling the most and cutting the best deals to their customers and as this behaviour waxes and wanes so will the popularity of particular languages, compilers, framewworks etc. Keep in mind that at some point there is so much code written in particular language/environment that it becomes nearly impossible for it to go away: PL1 and ADA are still around but very few people make their livings with these nowadays .....

CalTrader,

Your point is well taken. I don't pretend to give advise to programmer shops. I shared my experience in applying programming languages to my trading. This is what the ET forum is about. Whether your customers like Python or don't know about it is irrelevant to my activity.

Your observation:

"It all really depends upon which vendor is yelling the most and cutting the best deals to their customers and as this behaviour waxes and wanes so will the popularity of particular languages, compilers, framewworks etc."

is sometimes correct, sometimes not.

I don't think it held for Cobol and Fortran. It holds even less for C. Did you ever encounter a more embattled environment than Unix and C during the Bell Labs years? DEC and IBM certainly dragged their feet on it. DEC, where did you go? IBM, where are you now?

Between us, being the devils advocate, if I were you I would never advise a customer to go the Python way. You would be able to bill only a third of what you can bill him now! This is what I learned about the merits of the languages being talked about on these threads.

Your statement on the usage of C# is very revealing. Not too many of its true believers have pointed this out. You are in my opinion a rather sharp cookie! Forgive me though for sticking with my Python.

Good to you

nononsense

nononsense · Dec 5, 2003

Quote from corvus:

Seems like you have alot of difficulty getting along with others.

Not at all dear Dude,

Simply sticking out my helping hand to save you from your hallucinations!

No sweat,

nononsense

nononsense · Dec 5, 2003

Quote from axeman:

My granddad is dead, so I know for a fact you are not him.

As for longshot, its just a guess.
I never picked up on longshot being a techie, so I kinda
doubted it.

I cant prove if your longshot or not. Hmmmm... maybe I can
But do I really want to waste that much time trying to hack
ET to find out? Aint worth it.

peace

axeman

You're right axeman. Ain't worth it. Better learn some more Python.

Trader.NET · Dec 5, 2003

Nononsense,

You seem to be bitter about a lot of things related to programming languages.

If Java is viable to you, then C# should not be too far away. We have found a lot of applications being ported from VC++/MFC to C# due to reduced cost and more modern features. I guess it's just up to what your customers want and how you present the best solutions to them.

Trader.NET

Quote from nononsense:

CalTrader,

Your point is well taken. I don't pretend to give advise to programmer shops. I shared my experience in applying programming languages to my trading. This is what the ET forum is about. Whether your customers like Python or don't know about it is irrelevant to my activity.

Your observation:

"It all really depends upon which vendor is yelling the most and cutting the best deals to their customers and as this behaviour waxes and wanes so will the popularity of particular languages, compilers, framewworks etc."

is sometimes correct, sometimes not.

I don't think it held for Cobol and Fortran. It holds even less for C. Did you ever encounter a more embattled environment than Unix and C during the Bell Labs years? DEC and IBM certainly dragged their feet on it. DEC, where did you go? IBM, where are you now?

Between us, being the devils advocate, if I were you I would never advise a customer to go the Python way. You would be able to bill only a third of what you can bill him now! This is what I learned about the merits of the languages being talked about on these threads.

Your statement on the usage of C# is very revealing. Not too many of its true believers have pointed this out. You are in my opinion a rather sharp cookie! Forgive me though for sticking with my Python.

Good to you

nononsense

sprstpd · Dec 5, 2003

Quote from nononsense:

The length of the code to implement a task has since machine language always been am important criterion. C# and Java did not improve much at all. Python did. Clarity of syntax is another criterion - same story.

Keep happily struggling with your C# fellows, I'll run with Python.

nononsense

If you like Python, wouldn't you love Ruby? And it has even fewer followers.

corvus · Dec 5, 2003

Quote from nononsense:

Simply sticking out my helping hand to save you from your hallucinations!

I'm not finding it particularly helpful.

Let's go back to your Python arguments. You said in your first, relatively non-confrontational post: "Comparing Java and C# against C and C++ I must say that I cannot really see any improvement in looking at the way this changed the length of code or decreased the effort to write something. Doing the same program in Python leads to a much reduced code length with an extreme level of clarity."

Ok, then, one argument you have for Python is reduced code length and increased clarity. But how again does that make Python a replacement for C, C++, or Java given that the strengths of these languages do not reside only in the clarity of the code written in them? You make some comments about "speed" but in every example I have seen, the "speed" of Python simply came from it's ability to glue together pieces of C/C++ code seemlessly.

nononsense · Dec 5, 2003

Quote from corvus:

I'm not finding it particularly helpful.

Let's go back to your Python arguments. You said in your first, relatively non-confrontational post: "Comparing Java and C# against C and C++ I must say that I cannot really see any improvement in looking at the way this changed the length of code or decreased the effort to write something. Doing the same program in Python leads to a much reduced code length with an extreme level of clarity."

Ok, then, one argument you have for Python is reduced code length and increased clarity. But how again does that make Python a replacement for C, C++, or Java given that the strengths of these languages do not reside only in the clarity of the code written in them? You make some comments about "speed" but in every example I have seen, the "speed" of Python simply came from it's ability to glue together pieces of C/C++ code seemlessly.

Corvus,

I agree with your: " I'm not finding it particularly helpful." I didn't start all this. Your LongShot link was indeed not particularly helpful. I you get irritated so quickly, don't get yourself into such "particularly helpful" silly situations.

You don't impress me as knowing much about Python, Corvus. I am not a missionary for replacing C, C++, Java or C#@&? by anything. All I said that for my trading related programming I am happier with Python.

About your:

"But how again does that make Python a replacement for C, C++, or Java given that the strengths of these languages do not reside only in the clarity of the code written in them?"

I am not sure what you are trying to say or to ask. Python is certainly an example of syntaxical clarity not equalled by C nor C++ nor Java. Read Guido Van Rossum on this. If you fail to agree, come back and tell us what is wrong with it. We will all listen to you.

I could say a lot about what you call "speed" in Python. Don't forget python is a scripting language. Because of it's special connection to C++ it can indeed do many things very efficiently. Even number crunching can be done very efficiently. For this forum I think I contributed my "little secrets" as well as I could. In spite of the opinion of some simpletons not finding much in bookstores but VB, a little study will advance you tremendously in wisdom in these matters.

Don't like it, stick with your Java and C#.

Be good,

nononsense