Bystanders Shot at Empire State Building Were Hit by Police
- Thread starter Brass
- Start date
Uh no dopey. Most if not all of the shootings regardless of who is involved ARE "crime scenes". Duh!
There are roughly 800,000 law enforcement officers in the US. 47% of US households have a gun on the premises. Should I do the math for you? Or would you prefer to look stupid quietly?
"Stupid" how exactly?
run away , run away
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That's an interesting statistic. Is it from the FBI?
I doubt civilians as a whole are better trained than police officers so If the 5.2 fold differential is correct, I think you have to examine whether situational differences between police shootings and civilian shooting impact the outcomes. Some police enter situations prepared for an armed battle,such as exercising an arrest warrant on a dangerous suspect, but the Empire State Building incident was a shootout ( I know, the perp didnt fire) that emerged quickly on an extremely crowded street. My guess, and this is just a guess, is that a high proportion of civilian shootings are deliberate and perhaps one sided; that is, one side is armed, and the other isn't, (notwithstanding the frequency with which two gangbangers cross each other on the street and decide to go at it) like the old man in Mississippi who popped the burglar, or a planned murder with an unaware victim, or a car jacking that went bad. So I think you need to delve deeper into the statistics before really drawing conclusions as to whether the police are worse than civilians with guns.
Now do your stats refer solely to civilian defensive shootings, that is, a civilian who is faced with a deadly encounter and fires in response? Can you provide a link, or a reference for the 11% & 2%?
Plus, Lucrum, you can do this without rancor because it really is
an apolitical issue!
Don't recall off the top of my head, but I didn't just pull it out of my ass. Many of these types of stats though do originate there. It would take awhile for me to track down the source, if you're disputing.
Many anti gun loons assume this very thing. it's humane nature to assume things you don't really know if it makes sense on the surface AND reinforces whatever preconceived notions you may have.
You'd probably need to define "training". For example, while I have very little in the way of formal training (I do have some)I've been handling firearms without incident for over 40 years. Compare that to a 21 year old rookie cop. Unless he's a returning war vet, I've been shooting twice as long as he's been alive. I have more knowledge, more experience, more gun prowess, more trigger time and have been exposed to more types of weapons than he has.
So in this example, who would you feel better about being armed?
A uniform and a badge don't make you an expert. I can go to the Halloween store and buy a cop suit.
It would certainly make sense
Yes they do and from the reading I've done this is often where they shoot the wrong person. They're hyped up they break down the wrong door they see a guy holding a hair dryer and boom, he's dead. Happens all too often.
Well I would hope the police shootings, remember these are the ones you claim are better trained, would be a little more deliberate. In fact anytime you're pointing a weapon at someone, squeezing the trigger should be well 'thought out" deliberate act. You just have to think in a hurry in most situations. (one reason why not necessarily everyone should arm themselves) I have not noticed any big difference between civilian and police shootings as far as the perp being armed. If anything I'd guess police shoot more unarmed people that anyone else. Remember, police often get a free pass when they fuck up.
The average armed citizen does not. Hence one reason, imo, why they tend to shoot the wrong person less often. They HAVE to, to stay out of prison.
The police don't. Also it's far more difficult for an armed citizen to justify shooting someone not armed. The police do it and get away with it all the time.
So far as I know yes.
I have my good moments.
That's a very interesting point. Had these two cops in NYC at
the Empire State Building been imbued with an awareness that stray shots fired would have a legal or criminal consequence for them they may have acted differently and fired their guns in a more discriminating fashion.
Lucrum, are you aware that Abbie Hoffman, were he alive today, would be in complete agreement with you?
the Empire State Building been imbued with an awareness that stray shots fired would have a legal or criminal consequence for them they may have acted differently and fired their guns in a more discriminating fashion.
Lucrum, are you aware that Abbie Hoffman, were he alive today, would be in complete agreement with you?