Bypassing Wall St.

Originally posted by Babak
Just read this article from IHT:

http://www.iht.com/articles/59503.html

I know that as short term traders we love to refer to mutual fund and pension fund traders as retarded elephants but does this mean that soon we won't be able to take advantage of their rampages?
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As I understand it, they aren't putting out their stuff on arca and isld, at least not much. they are using ecn's geared for the institutions. If you do a word seach on 'Harold Bradley,' you can read the scoop from the [now former] head of equities trading at American Century Investors.
 
The point is if these giants take their trading somewhere that is only accessible to them and their peers, then will we have a market in the near future where it is fragmented along the lines of size? How likely is that?
 
Babak,

Seems to me that this would be a huge step back that would be hard to take/make. It was not too long ago that Instinet was just available to big funds, but no longer. Sure there will always be second market plays where a buyer and seller can be matched privately. But for 60000 shares on a liquid stock I would think you could hit ISLD or INCA a few levels down and get out without paying the extra fees. And many funds may just be looking at it that way. I have my IRA at Schwab, but $30 a trade several times a year is too much for "order entry." Two years ago I would not have given it a second thought.

Of course someone sold me 20 shares today, which was a little light of my normal 100, so maybe volume is drying up.
 
they can still ignore you on instinet, right? and if it serves their purposes, they'll ignore you everywhere else, too. There is also the elitist mentality to consider. It is very real. Knowing this might be an edge in itself.
 
Chasin,

Sure, I get ignored all the time. On an ECN it comes I am guessing from situations where brokers send order flow to a specific market maker at the price I have advertised. And on the NYSE/AMEX there are clearly MMs that will penny me on both sides. However, if they have a large block to buy or sell it is easy to slip in with the flow, only problem is that I don't know when it is coming.

It is just a guess that institutions deal with the same sorts of shenanigans from the Merrills of the world. Hence the creation of second markets. ECNs just seem so effective to me from cost and a fairness standpoint, that well placed limit orders can reap the retail trader some $$ from the larger blocks.

As an aside, you remind me of another prolific poster that was here not to long ago, is that a coincidence?
 
Originally posted by trdrmac
Chasin,

Sure, I get ignored all the time. On an ECN it comes I am guessing from situations where brokers send order flow to a specific market maker at the price I have advertised. And on the NYSE/AMEX there are clearly MMs that will penny me on both sides. However, if they have a large block to buy or sell it is easy to slip in with the flow, only problem is that I don't know when it is coming.

It is just a guess that institutions deal with the same sorts of shenanigans from the Merrills of the world. Hence the creation of second markets. ECNs just seem so effective to me from cost and a fairness standpoint, that well placed limit orders can reap the retail trader some $$ from the larger blocks.

As an aside, you remind me of another prolific poster that was here not to long ago, is that a coincidence?
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not if he was chasinfla. otherwise, perhaps. I have never posted here as anyone else. But I'm not big believer in coincidence.

When you speak of nyse ecn, are you referring to Direct?
 
Originally posted by chasinfla



When you speak of nyse ecn, are you referring to Direct?
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No, Im sorry, I had two separate thoughts blend. I use ARCA or ISLD for Nas stocks and liquid like spy qqq. And then just send buy/sell limit orders to the specialists book for nyse and amex.

What a nice ceremony for all the people who gave their lives on and since 9/11.
 
Originally posted by trdrmac


No, Im sorry, I had two separate thoughts blend. I use ARCA or ISLD for Nas stocks and liquid like spy qqq. And then just send buy/sell limit orders to the specialists book for nyse and amex.

What a nice ceremony for all the people who gave their lives on and since 9/11.
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Im sorry I missed it. Im sure it would have been the high point of my day, if you get my drift.

what was first prize, anyway?
 
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