Liking the skew and did a risk reversal today short 230p-long 290c, for 10k shares for a starter. might add another 240-270 if it behaves well
buying a Tesla with TSLA options, come on in
- Thread starter IndyJonerJr
- Start date
I looked at the financials and yes I do think it needs a raise (guess some mezzanine tranche), but I couldn't really understand its non-car revenues. Can't understand how the credits correlate with its car sales. The GPM is so tied to its credits and so can't estimate how much OPM should get crushed in 2019 and how much CF will be generated/burnt. So, I couldn't build a financial projection. The bull thesis is gone but this name is too 'sentimental' and rather trade news flows over fundamentals. One thing I think many sellside analysts neglect is the bigger EV picture and that TSLA indeed has a very strong strategic story which can't be justified in valuation methodology, making it persistently overvalued in their models.
Nice house mate. As a retail investor trading a few k, how did you afford to live in that nice house in hawaii? I trade in much larger sizes, but still can't afford to live in a decent house there (in fact I couldn't afford to eat any fruits there).
Hawaii? You bastard! J/k! 
Just got back from a week in Kauai. Nice place...the girls...*sigh* Too bad I'm an old f#ck! 
Just got back from a week in Kauai. Nice place...the girls...*sigh* Too bad I'm an old f#ck! COMMENTS: destriero, good luck on that bet mate! / option, good island to pick, I'm here because more for my son to do here / blue nice play, did you make anything or close out as from what I saw you were long the call, so did you close out after mid week? I have some other accounts, I am transferring more money to this account to play more.. I have bigger accounts then this one to afford this overpriced rock, but it is damn beautiful here, also my money didn't come from trading, I just wanted more stuff then I could afford so I looked for a way to indulge my materialism and found options highly addictive.. I was averaging 1% a week for a long while, but blew all profits traveling for the last couple years.. please chip in as I can always use more experience!!! I feel like I'm trading peanuts next to you big boys! you guys can comment on plays or suggestions or if you think naked is retarded.. I don't care as I like learning and hearing people's point of view or experience!!!!!
DATE / TALLY: March 29th profit is at: for week = $4,158 minus $300 closing out 300 contracts with no fee so = $3,858 / total since start: 932 / 3,858 = $4,790
THOUGHTS: so realizing this would go pretty fast once I put more money into this account, I decided to change the "rules".. I'm going to accumulate 4x the amount of car, after that all profit from that amount ( 4x 45,250 = $181,000 ) playing options on that earned money will payoff the car.. I decided this because 1. it would end too quick to just pay off the car. 2. I was once listing to this guy Dan Lok talking about how he buys shit.. he gets an asset and then he goes and buys the shit.. It was making me think to stop just earning money for the thing and earn more then it to have that money generate the funds needed.. this might sound silly as I already have funds.. but I was thinking, how damn rich would someone be if they wanted to buy something they had to have 4x amount of the object, get dividends from that asset then minimum go buy the thing so your left with more money in your account.. growing richer the more things you accumulate... also this would offset taxes and maintenance for anything you buy. so I've settled on 4x the amount and again I will use what that makes ( $181,000 ) to play options and whatever that earns I can start using to pay off the car. figured we all need goals right.
PLAYS: these were pick dup Monday before close. being in my time zone I'm sure as hell not waking up early early and I like to have my morning routine before hitting the market so if you have those down days it doesn't affect your day too much. some were picked up last week on Friday or Thursday.. I've been experimenting watching the options rot over weekend.. people say the money is baked into that account, I'm not sure I fully believe this as even if you wake up and it's down the option is still worth less, not even same as Friday. again sometimes people don't deal or the market closes up and I can't finish picking up what I want. so you'll see some more plays then I like but it is what it is.. the calls for that week got closed up quick and couldn't get any money from them, until I also realized I was being charged that side, I thought IB lets a strangle be charged the higher of the margin for one side.. nope apparently not so lesson learned not to pick up .03 cent contracts for calls..
-GROWTH: I'm really going to try to push myself here. usually I'm lazy and as I said if I need something I'll hop on an make the money and hop off.. what I plan to do is push my comfort zone, and try to open new avenues of how to extract more money quicker and try to "stack" or what I dub "profit recycle" which I want to make some more "risky" plays then I normally do to about 75% max loss for that weeks total what I made.. so in event the play goes bad I didn't lose the whole weeks worth, then if it goes for you you've made that much more for the week.. haven't calculated if the market destroys all positions.. but this is pushing me from my nice cozy bed, so I'm ramping up production of that. the 200 strike puts were my tip toe out onto the cold floor. I think I hit 35 so next week I jumped it to 40 contracts, as I've picked up most for what's next week as these options have been burning into ash with no big drops this week, so figured I better pick them up now, of course there could be a massive drop Monday but then I deal with that Monday. I'm also edging closer to ATM as I was far far out... and yes it makes me nervous but it's a good time for me to expand and grow and learn. so with these "risk plays" I expect to start making a dent a couple months in where that's maybe grown to about 8k, and then you just keep slowing fiddling your way to more options, that's 4 more options per week ) if you don't include margin ) that it slowly adds up little by little where hopefully it should keep stacking, or at least it does in my head.. maybe slower then expected, but every thousand in the account means more options plays
any suggestions how to keeping stacking up money, or "recycling" to make more plays.. or is it a slow process and takes a long time to build momentum?
DATE / TALLY: March 29th profit is at: for week = $4,158 minus $300 closing out 300 contracts with no fee so = $3,858 / total since start: 932 / 3,858 = $4,790
THOUGHTS: so realizing this would go pretty fast once I put more money into this account, I decided to change the "rules".. I'm going to accumulate 4x the amount of car, after that all profit from that amount ( 4x 45,250 = $181,000 ) playing options on that earned money will payoff the car.. I decided this because 1. it would end too quick to just pay off the car. 2. I was once listing to this guy Dan Lok talking about how he buys shit.. he gets an asset and then he goes and buys the shit.. It was making me think to stop just earning money for the thing and earn more then it to have that money generate the funds needed.. this might sound silly as I already have funds.. but I was thinking, how damn rich would someone be if they wanted to buy something they had to have 4x amount of the object, get dividends from that asset then minimum go buy the thing so your left with more money in your account.. growing richer the more things you accumulate... also this would offset taxes and maintenance for anything you buy. so I've settled on 4x the amount and again I will use what that makes ( $181,000 ) to play options and whatever that earns I can start using to pay off the car. figured we all need goals right.
PLAYS: these were pick dup Monday before close. being in my time zone I'm sure as hell not waking up early early and I like to have my morning routine before hitting the market so if you have those down days it doesn't affect your day too much. some were picked up last week on Friday or Thursday.. I've been experimenting watching the options rot over weekend.. people say the money is baked into that account, I'm not sure I fully believe this as even if you wake up and it's down the option is still worth less, not even same as Friday. again sometimes people don't deal or the market closes up and I can't finish picking up what I want. so you'll see some more plays then I like but it is what it is.. the calls for that week got closed up quick and couldn't get any money from them, until I also realized I was being charged that side, I thought IB lets a strangle be charged the higher of the margin for one side.. nope apparently not so lesson learned not to pick up .03 cent contracts for calls..
-GROWTH: I'm really going to try to push myself here. usually I'm lazy and as I said if I need something I'll hop on an make the money and hop off.. what I plan to do is push my comfort zone, and try to open new avenues of how to extract more money quicker and try to "stack" or what I dub "profit recycle" which I want to make some more "risky" plays then I normally do to about 75% max loss for that weeks total what I made.. so in event the play goes bad I didn't lose the whole weeks worth, then if it goes for you you've made that much more for the week.. haven't calculated if the market destroys all positions.. but this is pushing me from my nice cozy bed, so I'm ramping up production of that. the 200 strike puts were my tip toe out onto the cold floor. I think I hit 35 so next week I jumped it to 40 contracts, as I've picked up most for what's next week as these options have been burning into ash with no big drops this week, so figured I better pick them up now, of course there could be a massive drop Monday but then I deal with that Monday. I'm also edging closer to ATM as I was far far out... and yes it makes me nervous but it's a good time for me to expand and grow and learn. so with these "risk plays" I expect to start making a dent a couple months in where that's maybe grown to about 8k, and then you just keep slowing fiddling your way to more options, that's 4 more options per week ) if you don't include margin ) that it slowly adds up little by little where hopefully it should keep stacking, or at least it does in my head.. maybe slower then expected, but every thousand in the account means more options plays
any suggestions how to keeping stacking up money, or "recycling" to make more plays.. or is it a slow process and takes a long time to build momentum?
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I used to think the weekend theta was baked into the pricing on Fridays, but after seeing this study done by TastyTrade, I'm thinking differently.
A couple thoughts about your journey:
1. I love this idea about paying for your Tesla with TSLA options - brilliant!
2. Earning the money needed to purchase a "doodad" BEFORE purchasing it is also a great idea.
3. Trading this large makes me friggin' nervous as hell. My palms sweat just reading about it.
I'd like to hear how you manage the risk - both mentally and physically. It appears as though you are "pressing" this account on previous gains. Is the idea to limit your risks to the gains you've previously made and continue to build by only risking money you've already "won"?
I'm following along...
COMMENTS:CASH, thanks for being here man. will look at the link you showed and thank you for that!. Management of risk is very hard with Naked, there is no lie because something could spike up to just drop the next hour then you felt stupid closing something if you let it ride.. it's more feel then anything with naked for the sole reason, there is no clear cut marker unless you make one thus gain saying what I said there is very very high probabilities to lose that draw just based on a mechanical system.. I've set around 300% lose on the naked for now, which with naked you just have to draw a line.. I feel anything lower would close out positions far far to early especially with Tesla and it's erratic behavior. mentally it's tough, you put money on the line as with I said above you could lose far more then you made, and this multiplies out the bigger deals you go, maybe losing 10k isn't bad, what about a play that could lose 30k ,40k, 100k, or even 400k.. this is real and could happen. to be honest I can't even tell you how I manage. what I do before opening Mr. Market is to chant a little Mantra, which goes something like, just see where it's at, don't make any reactions.. this helps when you do have experience as I've opened up Market to see some things down 700%, but only to go back to level the next day... I do think clearing your mind is best along with not being reactive, thinking out clearly then formulating a response, best answer I can give where I'm at with my game.. so all my previous money how I can even play this doesn't come from trading as I spent that the last two years, hahaha. but yes well to be honest the goal is to get to the 180k or somewhere around there then yes, just play that money ( which was 4x the car price, which I don't know how I came to that, it just did and seemed to be where I needed it to make enough ).. of course to play a portion of it, would go over the margin of the 180k for sure.. no doubt about that but it's more a mental thing as you said.. not touching "my money" but the "earned money" would totally make the game way more enjoyable to know if you los tit was something that was extra... I have also been calculating as I want to make a run for 1 mill in one year, and have been calculating the risks and plays Needed to make, which equates to around 80k a month... but won't get into that yet, will make another journal or will spin off this in the future.. thing is I have a dad with ALS and some very poor family members I need to help out along the way so this will get interesting trying to save money but need to spend it.. anyways thanks for being here.
DATE/TALLY: April 5th week profit is at : $5,634. minus about 100 for IB exposure fees so = $5,534. total since start: ( 932 / 3,858 / 5,534 = $10,324 )
THOUGHTS: BS, BS, BS !!! that drop on Thursday had my longer dated options actually decreasing in price!! yes, and some wonder why I would complain about this, because I wanted to pick up even more, but they were worth less with a 8.5% drop.. which is why I said that TSLA options respond cooky and odd, drops that much and options are worth less.. well if you go look you'll see the ones very very close to ATM were the only ones to gain, all others dropped if you seriously believe that.. no lie! it's getting a little harder to pull farther OTM options premium , maybe caused but that 18% drop and things starting to level out more.. I keep grinding on then and am going to longer dated.
PLAYS: some were picked up a little ago, and some were closed out early.. been experimenting with both as previously stated in wanting to challenge myself to expand and do something a little different and learn. I've stated picking up some more longer term so shorter term might suffer but to me it's good experience and "more" money for less work always trying to find good weeklies, obviously what comes with this is risk holding longer plays going against you but time will tell, it's about me pushing myself out of my comfort zone. those calls were done day of drop, I love love love picking up these as they are so good, but if you look, who cashed out was the guys making 5 bucks on them and selling them to me for .05 cents, but that's way to directional for me.. it's not my style to flip a coin for that day, along with Tesla usually doesn't move half a percent or a percent.. it jumps like a bucking bronco.. something I don't have the macaroons for at this time, HAHAHAHA
GROWTH: I'm expanding into more farther dated options, some May and June and even some July, the July was for tester to get a feel that long out how they flow up and down. I've been also experimenting with closing some plays out, with some June ones I have the intention of closing them out 50% gain which were picked up for 1.80 I believe. that also leads me to way bigger premium then I'm use to, so smaller lots but higher premiums, something new for me as I'm use to looking for .10 cent options usually which I was expanding to the risky play of the week losing all money for that week if those didn't work out which were at about .20 cents, but I can't pick anything up in weeklies that good with far OTM right now.. market changes so I guess I have to be flexible as well.. I believe though how volatile and cash crunched Tesla is I just have to have patience.. along that way I will exploit opportunity and find new ways of venturing forth with that is displayed.. to me the signs show to move toward a little longer dated and close out early, as I am so accustomed to letting them die, I need to get comfortable with closing something out for so much money left.. the last thing I am learning or watching for is Friday to Monday premium price.. I believe this might be one of the best had ways to make premium as I consistently see lower pricing across the board for that move, something I just need to watch for months on end to see how the pricing reacts to huge drops and such to give a final verdict, as I never watched Teslas as I am doing now, Tesla was awakes if I had some side change I would go make a play.. but I believe an extremely "safe" way to make a short term bet for premium.. I'll keep posted as that develops, the problem could be selling off such a large order but I don't think we should even worry about that yet, hahaha
DATE/TALLY: April 5th week profit is at : $5,634. minus about 100 for IB exposure fees so = $5,534. total since start: ( 932 / 3,858 / 5,534 = $10,324 )
THOUGHTS: BS, BS, BS !!! that drop on Thursday had my longer dated options actually decreasing in price!! yes, and some wonder why I would complain about this, because I wanted to pick up even more, but they were worth less with a 8.5% drop.. which is why I said that TSLA options respond cooky and odd, drops that much and options are worth less.. well if you go look you'll see the ones very very close to ATM were the only ones to gain, all others dropped if you seriously believe that.. no lie! it's getting a little harder to pull farther OTM options premium , maybe caused but that 18% drop and things starting to level out more.. I keep grinding on then and am going to longer dated.
PLAYS: some were picked up a little ago, and some were closed out early.. been experimenting with both as previously stated in wanting to challenge myself to expand and do something a little different and learn. I've stated picking up some more longer term so shorter term might suffer but to me it's good experience and "more" money for less work always trying to find good weeklies, obviously what comes with this is risk holding longer plays going against you but time will tell, it's about me pushing myself out of my comfort zone. those calls were done day of drop, I love love love picking up these as they are so good, but if you look, who cashed out was the guys making 5 bucks on them and selling them to me for .05 cents, but that's way to directional for me.. it's not my style to flip a coin for that day, along with Tesla usually doesn't move half a percent or a percent.. it jumps like a bucking bronco.. something I don't have the macaroons for at this time, HAHAHAHA
GROWTH: I'm expanding into more farther dated options, some May and June and even some July, the July was for tester to get a feel that long out how they flow up and down. I've been also experimenting with closing some plays out, with some June ones I have the intention of closing them out 50% gain which were picked up for 1.80 I believe. that also leads me to way bigger premium then I'm use to, so smaller lots but higher premiums, something new for me as I'm use to looking for .10 cent options usually which I was expanding to the risky play of the week losing all money for that week if those didn't work out which were at about .20 cents, but I can't pick anything up in weeklies that good with far OTM right now.. market changes so I guess I have to be flexible as well.. I believe though how volatile and cash crunched Tesla is I just have to have patience.. along that way I will exploit opportunity and find new ways of venturing forth with that is displayed.. to me the signs show to move toward a little longer dated and close out early, as I am so accustomed to letting them die, I need to get comfortable with closing something out for so much money left.. the last thing I am learning or watching for is Friday to Monday premium price.. I believe this might be one of the best had ways to make premium as I consistently see lower pricing across the board for that move, something I just need to watch for months on end to see how the pricing reacts to huge drops and such to give a final verdict, as I never watched Teslas as I am doing now, Tesla was awakes if I had some side change I would go make a play.. but I believe an extremely "safe" way to make a short term bet for premium.. I'll keep posted as that develops, the problem could be selling off such a large order but I don't think we should even worry about that yet, hahaha
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Thanks for the added details.
I play a little closer to the money but with much smaller size. For example, I sold a May 355/225 strangle (15 delta) a few days ago. When trading naked I normally look to find high IV ETFs, but I do like to try new things to learn. This is my first naked TSLA play, but very small.
I really don't like TA and don't put any value in it, but I have gotten fairly good at spotting support and resistance levels and I'm thinking of adding this to my non-directional strategy.
When IV is this low (I'm not talking TSLA), it's hard to make money playing neutral. I'm hoping that playing neutral but using S/R levels will augment my returns.
I play a little closer to the money but with much smaller size. For example, I sold a May 355/225 strangle (15 delta) a few days ago. When trading naked I normally look to find high IV ETFs, but I do like to try new things to learn. This is my first naked TSLA play, but very small.
I really don't like TA and don't put any value in it, but I have gotten fairly good at spotting support and resistance levels and I'm thinking of adding this to my non-directional strategy.
When IV is this low (I'm not talking TSLA), it's hard to make money playing neutral. I'm hoping that playing neutral but using S/R levels will augment my returns.
COMMENTS: CACHE, nice play, I like it.. what's your backup for getting out if it goes south? are you worried about earnings coming? I have some May plays as well, but not at 225, too rich for my blood although I don't see it ever zonking there, but it's a strange world, and anything can happen. oh also thanks for that video,, so they were stating you bake in risk over weekend, if Elon does something or say a plant catches fire... it make sense and the risk is just transferred to holding those days and hoping nothing bad happens over weekend.. kinda wonder if someone could do some statistical analysis on these holding days with a open of Monday what really is better for a short term play.. to hold over weekend or hold during weekday.. in my opinion which is totally blind.. its better to hold weekend as the stock doesn't move, the only way it can is open of Monday bearing any news over weekend, but then again I'm not sure how much news is put out over weekend.. there is more political, geographical, CEO risk I guess
DATE/TALLY: April 12th week profit is at : $3,084 minus $117 to sell off = $2,967 for this week. total since start: ( 932 / 3,858 / 5,534 / 2,967 = $13,291 )
THOUGHTS:the options are closing on premium, where you could have got a 50% down strike put for about 8-10 cents, now the market doe snot have that.. as said I have been moving further outs, getting comfortable with longer dated plays and learning that. you just roll with he punches, but it's fun trying to find opportunity as when it close sup you always look for another route to your destination.
PLAYS: this week was a longer dated I held and sold off for more margin. nice healthy gain and more important experience as I'm not sure how long I held that, maybe a month or 2 months.. agains something new for me, as longest I use to do was month long dated options. you're going to see some larger premium plays, but will come with some time as they are longer dated.
GROWTH:same still. I need to explore combinations and further dated puts if I want to collect any premium with what I consider relative little risk. also I'm just waiting for my money transfer over so I can do more volume thus more money.. but it's fun with whatever account as it makes you work harder I believe the smaller account you have, harder to take that same mindset with a larger account in my opinion.. looks and feels better to calculate a 10k loss vs. a 300k loss.. no comparison... so I just learn to enjoy the process as there is no end to money really, unless you have a final destination and are content with what place.. few are.
DATE/TALLY: April 12th week profit is at : $3,084 minus $117 to sell off = $2,967 for this week. total since start: ( 932 / 3,858 / 5,534 / 2,967 = $13,291 )
THOUGHTS:the options are closing on premium, where you could have got a 50% down strike put for about 8-10 cents, now the market doe snot have that.. as said I have been moving further outs, getting comfortable with longer dated plays and learning that. you just roll with he punches, but it's fun trying to find opportunity as when it close sup you always look for another route to your destination.
PLAYS: this week was a longer dated I held and sold off for more margin. nice healthy gain and more important experience as I'm not sure how long I held that, maybe a month or 2 months.. agains something new for me, as longest I use to do was month long dated options. you're going to see some larger premium plays, but will come with some time as they are longer dated.
GROWTH:same still. I need to explore combinations and further dated puts if I want to collect any premium with what I consider relative little risk. also I'm just waiting for my money transfer over so I can do more volume thus more money.. but it's fun with whatever account as it makes you work harder I believe the smaller account you have, harder to take that same mindset with a larger account in my opinion.. looks and feels better to calculate a 10k loss vs. a 300k loss.. no comparison... so I just learn to enjoy the process as there is no end to money really, unless you have a final destination and are content with what place.. few are.
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Indy, I was traveling and didn't see your post. I was able to close my strangle today at 50% max profit. My plan was to allow it to go against me 3x max profit before closing. Lucky for me that never happened. No matter what my gain or loss would have been on the 24th, I would have closed before the ER.
It looks like you are well on your way to reaching your goal. I'll be here watching and learning!
Off topic question about your Tesla - Does the all-glass roof get too hot in the summer? I live in Arizona, and it gets friggin' hot here with a lot of direct sunlight. Not sure that would work here. Thoughts?
It looks like you are well on your way to reaching your goal. I'll be here watching and learning!
Off topic question about your Tesla - Does the all-glass roof get too hot in the summer? I live in Arizona, and it gets friggin' hot here with a lot of direct sunlight. Not sure that would work here. Thoughts?