But what about copper ?

Quote from oldtime:


No qe5? no need to short the dollar, no need to buy silver
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Wait - doesn't that imply higher interest rates ?
Higher rates = more attractive currency, no ?
Gold and silver just hate competing assets that pay-out interest or dividends.
 
Quote from syswizard:

Wait - doesn't that imply higher interest rates ?
Higher rates = more attractive currency, no ?
Gold and silver just hate competing assets that pay-out interest or dividends.
More...
it's a mess, isn't it? We are all just fighting over the crumbs. It will be just fine with me if they start needing that copper again. Maybe not in USA, but somewhere.
 
Quote from oldtime:

it's a mess, isn't it?
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This is really something...all of these "cross-currents".
Guess right...and you're rich; and vise-versa :(

I still must go with the short-copper idea....with a weak Europe and slowing China as the main reasons. Also, I don't think there will be much demand from housing in the USA after this "pop" in home building stalls. It won't be a quick move, just a long gradual one back under $3. So long put options would NOT be the way to go here.

Of course, I could be wrong, especially if the Fed is lying and just trying to play games about running out of money.
 
Quote from syswizard:

This is really something...all of these "cross-currents".
Guess right...and you're rich; and vise-versa :(

I still must go with the short-copper idea....with a weak Europe and slowing China as the main reasons. Also, I don't think there will be much demand from housing in the USA after this "pop" in home building stalls. It won't be a quick move, just a long gradual one back under $3. So long put options would NOT be the way to go here.

Of course, I could be wrong, especially if the Fed is lying and just trying to play games about running out of money.
More...
I hear ya. Hard to make money investing in commodities. Especially if you start out as a trader. Don't matter whether it's crude, wheat or copper. You invest in people. You trade commodities. And most of the time. they don't know that the reason for their success was you traded the commodities they needed. Even the smallest electric contractor needs a good copper trader on his side.
 
Quote from oldtime:

Hard to make money investing in commodities.
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Not really, all you need to do is catch the trend. Ask Ed Seykota and Larry Williams ! Problem is: few good trends to catch today with these cross-currents.
And never forget, with commodities, if you start going "in the money", you just keep buying more contracts.
10 cars of copper = $2500 per penny move. That's a nice chunk of change.
 
Quote from syswizard:

Not really, all you need to do is catch the trend. Ask Ed Seykota and Larry Williams ! Problem is: few good trends to catch today with these cross-currents.
And never forget, with commodities, if you start going "in the money", you just keep buying more contracts.
10 cars of copper = $2500 per penny move. That's a nice chunk of change.
More...
I hear ya, but it's not something you can put on and forget about

gotta get in right, and get out right

unless you know something more than me

but I personally am not willing to invest my hard won life savings investing in copper, with the idea, "Eventually it will always go up, even more than stocks."
 
Quote from syswizard:

Not really, all you need to do is catch the trend. Ask Ed Seykota and Larry Williams ! Problem is: few good trends to catch today with these cross-currents.
And never forget, with commodities, if you start going "in the money", you just keep buying more contracts.
10 cars of copper = $2500 per penny move. That's a nice chunk of change.
More...

your kind of a copper bear... i kind of pay attention to this thread.. and that seems to be the essence of it..... are you trading copper?
 
Quote from cdcaveman:

and that seems to be the essence of it.....
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Yep....but I'd love to discuss either side of the trade.
I can't see the picture for world economic growth at this stage.
That makes a lot of commodities over-priced IMHO.
Copper just happens to be one of them.
Oil is another !
 
Metal stocks fell broadly across Asia on Monday, with Kobe Steel Ltd. and others lower by 1%.

The losses came ahead of key earnings for the sector, with aluminum major Alcoa Inc. set to kick off the traditional opening of U.S. reporting season Tuesday.

Prices for gold and other metals extended losses Friday after minutes out Thursday from the Federal Reserve signaled the central bank could bring quantitative easing to an end this year. Many Asian metal stocks lost ground Friday following the Fed minutes.

Bottomline: Metals can stay up only with the help of QE.
Alcoa bad report ? Ominous for copper.
 
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