Bush Disapproval Rating on Iraq Exceeds 50% in Poll

[ARogueTrader]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:



Excellent points. I have repeatedly voiced my disgust that more attention has not been paid to preventing casualties, but some casualties are inevitable. I don't recall the Lynn Cutlers of the world being too concerned whne Wes Clark was running a terror bombing campaign over Serbia or when our sailors were killed on the Cole or at Khobar Towers.

Americans are spoiled, I think that fact is indisputable. We want freedom and security, but no blood loss.

This is not realistic in life, nor is it reflective of reality.

We were awakened to reality on 911.

Life is messy, and people are going to die....each and every one of us for that matter at some point.

Some percentage of policemen, firemen, and soldiers are going to die in the line of duty.

Where we need debate and a long term plan (which I don't think we really had when we invaded Iraq) is not whether people will die in the process, but how do we minimize death and destruction in the long run.

One point that is not in our favor, is our enemy that is of the Muslim extremist persuasion doesn't have the same value of life that we do.

Terrorism works when people can be terrorized.

These people see being able to be terrorized as a weakness, especially when we value a few lives before our National well being, and they play upon this as it is a weakness of ours as a country at present.

We as a country need to buck up, no matter what we agree to do and demonstrate a sense of resolve no matter what...a stiff upper lip if you will.

This doesn't mean I think what is happening in Iraq should necessarily continue or not continue....but the debate needs to be geared to what is in the best interest of our society in the long run.

We are there now, and we now must do what is right in the long run.

Life requires making the best decision based on the reality of today, not looking back and laboring on what should have happened yesterday.

It is also a fact that every president we have had, or will have, is human....and will likely make mistakes from time to time.

I accept this, I think others should too.

All I ask is that we have leadership who actually leads, but is also strong enough to admit when they are wrong.

Presidents who live in fear of public opinion polls will never make good leaders, and despite what Bush says, he lives and makes decisions on the basis of these polls all too much.

This is bad policy, and is crippling the ability of the presidency to get the job done in many instances.

We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.

We have a congress who approved Bush's power, yet you don't see the outcry against the democratic senators who granted Bush that power.

It is a slippery slope that we currently are perched on, as public opinion is most often uninformed and manic in nature.

What happened in California sends shudders down my spine to think that the whim of the electorate can so quickly make changes in context of our system of government.

Were that to happen in Washington, that would be the end of our precious system of government.

 

[m&m&m]

Quote from ARogueTrader:


...
Americans are spoiled, I think that fact is indisputable. We want freedom and security, but no blood loss.
...
We are there now, and we now must do what is right in the long run.
...

ArogueTrader, although I agree with you on many points, this war is not about freedom.
Do you or anybody else believe that Bush cares (just a little) about freedom in Iraq? Or that he thought there were WMD in Iraq?
This war is about personal matter and about ratings.
That’s why he should step down – personal stuff will disappear and problem (eventually) will be fixed.

 

[ARogueTrader]

Quote from m&m&m:


ArogueTrader, although I agree with you on many points, this war is not about freedom.
Do you or anybody else believe that Bush cares (just a little) about freedom in Iraq? Or that he thought there were WMD in Iraq?
This war is about personal matter and about ratings.
That’s why he should step down – personal stuff will disappear and problem (eventually) will be fixed.

This war is surely about freedom in the long run, for our society. In fact, most of us don't give a rat's ass about that part of the world, republican or democrat. But our personal freedoms are threatened by what goes on in that area of the world, given our dependency on foreign oil.

Regarding GW:

I have no certainty at all about his real motivations. We can speculate forever, but the facts don't reveal inner intent.

To me, his motivations in the past are not as relevant as dealing with the situation as it stands today, and attempting to make decisions that will be in our best long term interest going forward.

Too much attention in this country shifts to blame, rather than proposing working solutions to the problems.

Blame, blame, blame.

I guess that is what happens when people no longer stand up and take personal responsibility, we are reduced to blame games. There is so little honor on both sides of the political spectrum.

How may honorable politicians can you think of?

In the 60's, we said "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

Now it should be changed to "if are not part of those taking responsibility for solutions, you shouldn't be on the side of those who are blaming."

Blaming is a waste of time....unless you have proof of blame.

The republicans wasted time, money and energy trying to impeach Clinton, when they knew full well that he would never be impeached by the Senate...the democrats had the votes not to impeach. It was futile, and infantile. It accomplished nothing but weakened and continued to erode our society.

Same holds for democrats who waste time blaming GW when the democrats helped to give him the power he exercised in invading Iraq.

Put forth solutions that will capture the imagination of the voters, and quit wasting time in the blame game.

 

[m&m&m]

Quote from ARogueTrader:



Put forth solutions that will capture the imagination of the voters, and quit wasting time in the blame game.

Isn’t it obvious?
Bush would never admit his mistakes. He’s too proud.
But if he’s gone and another politician rules, even republican, but not personally responsible for that mess (which to the whole world was obvious would happen), then you open the totally new universe of available solutions – beginning with UN, NATO and even with Iraqis.

 

[Romeo]

Quote from ARogueTrader:



The full quote does nothing to enhance any sense of decorum of good taste.

It is this kind of behavior that gives those who disagree with the president a bad name.

I am all in favor of lampooning, but when the discussion of young American men dying is used to get a laugh, there is a lack of common decency in play by the author.

There is absolutely nothing funny about any U.S. soldier dying overseas by acts of terrorism.

Having to stoop to such levels simply illustrates a complete lack of class on your part.

While I disagree with our president on many different policies, I don't view him as fully removed from the feelings of loss and sadness when one of our soldiers perish.

Nolan-vinny-sam is a morally bankrupt maggot. Don't waste your energy on this turd.

 

[Nolan-Vinny-Sam]

Quote from Romeo:



Nolan-vinny-sam is a morally bankrupt maggot. Don't waste your energy on this turd.

brother romeomaverick. down to chitchat again?
I see you have been looking in the mirror, and typing attacks on your alter ego? shame shame shame what has this world come to? I protest Good description fits you to a T (note the capital T)

 

[ARogueTrader]

Quote from m&m&m:



Isn’t it obvious?
Bush would never admit his mistakes. He’s too proud.
But if he’s gone and another politician rules, even republican, but not personally responsible for that mess (which to the whole world was obvious would happen), then you open the totally new universe of available solutions – beginning with UN, NATO and even with Iraqis.

I would like to think that any politician could put away his pride and do what is best for the country, but it is probably pride that made them want to be president in the first place.

 

[Nolan-Vinny-Sam]

Quote from Nolan-Vinny-Sam:

Step one- dumya steps down Him and his cronies started this bullshit, do you really trust them to finish it???????:eek:

Step two- give 100$ to each Iraqi, let them vote, elect their OWN fucking rulers. 65% vote for clerics? so be it, it's fucking democracy.

Step 3- get the hell out of there.

Step 4- crucify the liars back home. Hold new elections.

bullshit war, a complete fraud, waste of taxpayers money andsoldiers blood

Step 5- take the $$ from HAL,Betchel and give it back to the taxpayers,

Step 6- find out who really did the 9-11 stone them in public (hint hint.. most are here in the US foes dressed as friends)

Step 7- send Mavman,Gordo, Romeo aka sardo,abraMondo.... to Saudi Arabia. Bomb the crap out of them.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

I have yet tohear any of the Democrat candidates offer any credible solution or plan of action for Iraq or terrorism. I think if even one of them offered a sensible suggestion, instead of trying to undermine a President at war, they would at least earn some respect. As it is, the voters have tuned them out before the race has even started.

Our country faces a serious problem, and Iraq and terrorism are only tangentially involved. The obsession to hold political power is so great that it has totally overwhelmed any sense of duty or honor among most politicians. The most recent evidence was the leaking of a memo from a Democrat staffer that suggested ways the Democrats could manipulate the 9/11 investigation to make Bush look bad. Is nothing sacrosanct?

I have a lot of problems with Bush, but the entire Democrat party seems to have been taken over by space aliens. Zell Miller, retiring Democrat Senator from Georgia, just published a book that basically says his party should not be trusted with power, that it is no longer mainstream.

 

[ARogueTrader]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I have yet tohear any of the Democrat candidates offer any credible solution or plan of action for Iraq or terrorism. I think if even one of them offered a sensible suggestion, instead of trying to undermine a President at war, they would at least earn some respect. As it is, the voters have tuned them out before the race has even started.

Our country faces a serious problem, and Iraq and terrorism are only tangentially involved. The obsession to hold political power is so great that it has totally overwhelmed any sense of duty or honor among most politicians. The most recent evidence was the leaking of a memo from a Democrat staffer that suggested ways the Democrats could manipulate the 9/11 investigation to make Bush look bad. Is nothing sacrosanct?

I have a lot of problems with Bush, but the entire Democrat party seems to have been taken over by space aliens. Zell Miller, retiring Democrat Senator from Georgia, just published a book that basically says his party should not be trusted with power, that it is no longer mainstream.

Sadly, I agree with you that there is no Democrat who is focused on positive solutions to the problem. They continue to harp on why there is a problem, which is irrelevant at this juncture. We still have a minimum of a year and a couple of months of the current administration at the least, and to reduce the next election to name calling is depressing.

I see no genuine leadership in the democratic party at present, and it is disheartening.

Why can't they just say they have a better idea without trashing Bush in the process? Negative selling is really base and vile in its nature, and demonstrates that the position they take is not clearly superior on its own merits.

These guys are more interested in being elected than solving the problems, and that is a characteristic that I most hate in any politician.

It is all blame, and that is why they will likely lose.