Building your own trading computer

Which version of windows are you running on this machine?

Quote from Bolimomo:

About a week ago I had built a new computer from parts. I had received a few PMs on the details so let me just jot down my experiences here for those who are interested.

My need:

I had mentioned in this thread:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194596

2 of my existing computers (HP-Compaq SR5610F) are too slow to process data to display some of the more complicated indicators that I developed. My need is primarily speed. In shopping for a new computer replacement, I was frustrated in seeing most of the new computers made by HP, Acer, Toshiba, e-Machine, etc. offer only 1 or max 2 open slots. I need my computer to drive a minimum of 6 monitors (3 video cards, 2 video ports each). I would not be able to use any of those models. So I have decided to build my own.

Summary:

Total price for the computer (excluding OS): about $1200
3 add-on video cards, PCIeX16: about $150 total
Windows OS: about $200

The price can vary a bit, depending on the speed of processor you pick, amount of RAM, hard-disk, DVDROM, chassis and power supply, etc..

Time spent in building the box was about 4 to 5 hours, plus some time in installing Windows. Assembling the parts is not too difficult. It helps if you have some general PC knowledge.


Planning/Shopping:

#1. Pick your processor first. Because that determines everything. The performance, motherboard, RAM, etc.. I picked Intel i7 930 2.8GHz (price around $300). Because it seems to be the fastest processor available for home users without spending a lot of money. The next one up is i7 980 3.3GHz but it costs around $1000.

Check the following resources for the CPU performance ranking and wiki for more detail descriptions on what processors are available:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Phenom


The Intel i7 930 2.8GHz chip is ranked at 5908.
The old AMD Athlon 64 X2 (B) 4800+ 2.5 GHz is ranked at 1255.

So I expected my new computer would perform about 4 times faster than my old one. (And it did, pretty much).


#2. Pick a motherboard. Each processor requires a different socket. You have to get the motherboard that has the right socket. Ask the technician to help you get a motherboard that is designed for the processor/socket/speed that you are using.

I took their recommendation and bought ASUS P6T motherboard.

Other most important considerations on picking the motherboard:

- How many open slots for expansion, and what type? (PCI, PCIeX1, PCIeX16, etc.) The ASUS P6T MoBo has 3 PCIeX16, 2 PCI and 1 PCIeX1.

The motherboard nowadays pretty much has built-in audio, disk controller (IDE and SATA, maybe SCSI), USB 2.0 (mine has 6 USB ports), keyboard/mouse minidin, RJ45 Ethernet socket. Some has one built-in VGA video output port, some don't. (Mine doesn't) If you plan on using multiple external video cards, the built-in video port may or may not be disabled.


#3. Pick your RAM (memory). The i7 processor uses DDR3 memories. There are different configurations depending on how many DDR3 slots are available and the memory modules that you buy. I have a total of 12GB. 6 DDR3 clips, each 2GB.


#4. Pick the chassis. Depends on how many disk drives you want to have, DVDROM/CDROM and other peripherals. Pick a big one if you plan to have many disk drives (e.g. building a RAID). A small one if you only need the minimal stuff.


#5. Pick the power supply. Add up all the power ratings of your components. A 300W is minimal. 600W is probably good enough. 1000W is probably an overkill - only if you have a lot of disk drives. The higher the wattage the more expensive the power supply.


#6. Pick the hard drive. SATA is the common interface these days. IDE and SCSI are the older standards. I picked a Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB drive, on sale for about $90.


#7. Pick a DVDRW drive. The prices are very competitive these days. I picked a Lite-On DVDRW for about $40.


#8. Windows OS (or other OS of your choice).


Here is the inventory list:

#1. Processor: Intel i7 930 2.8GHz chip
#2. Motherboard: ASUS P6T motherboard
#3. 6 X 2GB RAM module, DDR3
#4. Chassis
#5. 600W power supply
#6. Harddrive: Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB drive
#7. DVDRW drive: Lite-On DVDRW
#8. Windows OS (or other OS of your choice).
(Not including - you can reuse old ones: keyboard and mouse)


The assembly:

#1. The Intel processor comes with the heatsink and cooling fan. Just plug it in on to the motherboard.
#2. Plug in all the RAM modules.
#3. Bolt the motherboard onto the chassis. The chassis comes with all the screws that you would need.
#4. Bolt down your hard drives and DVDRW drives, etc..
#5. Bolt the power supply onto the chassis. Connect the power cables onto the mother board and all the peripherals (e.g. hard drives) and cooling fans.
#6. Follow the user guide from the mother board, connect all cables to the appropriate sockets (e.g. SATA cable, power button, rest button, USB cables, audio, etc..)
#7. Install the add-on video cards. If you have more than 1 video card, I would suggest to install only the first one when you install Windows and add the other ones later on.
#8. Hook up the keyboard, mouse, network cable (RJ45), etc..

That is roughly it. (But there are many details.)

Boot up your computer. Make sure you can get into BIOS first. Use your keyboard to set options and date/time and booting sequences, and check on the RAM size. If all works well, put the Windows disk in the DVDRW drive and start installing the OS. After the OS is up and running, need to install a few drivers that comes with the motherboard and the video cards. When you have one video card working (2 monitors), then shutdown the PC and install other additional video cards. At last hook up whatever USB-based peripherals that you normally use (e.g. printer, additional disk drive, thumb drive, etc.).

On top of that, download the latest updates of Windows and download/install your trading software and all other apps.
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Quote from Scataphagos:

Do you realize the picture you showed is perhaps 10 or more years old? Well, maybe only 7 years.. I had an 8300 where I cut the back plate for a replacement PSU, but that was a long time ago.

I had a D9200 also. At least by then Dell's cases stopped blocking the PSU power switch. In any event, it's no longer a problem for new buyers... Dell had an issue.. fixed it.. now no longer an issue.
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Apologies that I searched Google for an image of a Dell 8300 and chose the 1st one that matched the one I had as I no longer have that machine, though you had the same PSU issue with it so I'm not sure who gets the win on that point. Maybe I'll sort by date and find one that's newer; why not. FYI, that machine was delivered from Dell on 11/30/04 per a query to my Dell account just now. By my count that is 5 years and change, hardly the 10 years you're saying, and I never said this issue happened in the last year or 2...it was 4 years ago. Yes, I own a 9200 here and it's much better than the 8300 but I stand by my assertion that they are far less friendly than a BIY in terms of HW replacement.

Yes, the newer Dell's and other OEM machines are better with the power supply issue but still not 100% the same as a case you'd buy from Fry's, etc. Might it require a little jury rigging to get it to fit perfectly? Maybe, maybe not, and I guess that's not so difficult for most users but it's still a PITA. It's certainly better but that's just one of the issues with a Dell or HP or what not. You're eating out of their hand for support, HW compatibility and so forth. And I can't say for certainty, but let's say your PSU failed on you and you needed to go buy a new one and you got it installed by yourself...wouldn't that now void your warranty as you're now using a 3rd party piece of HW? If so, that's a genuine concern. Do failures happen all that often? No, but when they do they need to be addressed immediately and properly and I'm sorry but a best case scenario of 24 hours is a lot worse than a lunch trip to Fry's.

Why are you so anti-BIY or rather pro-Dell? I, myself, am pro-BIY for the following reasons:

- Price
- Ease of assembly, support from users and manufacturers
- Availability of replacement parts, should the need arise
- Less down-time vs. OEM's needing warranty replacement
- Control of every single piece of HW and software that runs on the system

and anti-OEM (in this case Dell, but everyone will suffer the same) for the following reasons:

- Price ($414.99 savings versus a comparable Dell, though that Dell did not have 64-bit Win7 as I used)
- Control over HW parts/assembly
- Control over installed software/bloatware
- Ability to get EXACTLY what you want, not a menu of choices
- Dependence on shoddy customer service

I think that in a thread espousing the benefits of BIY systems when someone comes in and calls me out and implies that their OEM's don't suffer then you have to expect this kind of response. I'm no computer builder or anything more than a guy that knows his way around a computer; smarter than the average bear, I guess. I've owned more Dell's that pretty much everyone here so don't say that I haven't put in plenty of time and effort into formulating my opinions. I don't understand what the argument for an OEM machine is versus a BIY system except the warranty, which can actually be a detriment as there's an opportunity cost associated with a warranty: TIME. Of course, YMMV and you're entitled to your own opinion and I respect that I just don't agree with it as of yet.

I'd love to hear your reasons FOR Dell or other OEM's over the BIY route rather than just making petty jabs at the age of a photo. I'm not being an asshole, I genuinely want to hear WHY you love Dell; maybe it will help change how I feel about them, though you're not going swing me back to the Dell-side of the spectrum as I'm happy with BIY. :)
 
Quote from TraderZones:

Your credentials, please? I think this is a bad idea for most people.

Do you build your own car? Your own TV? etc.?
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I disagree.

My credentials:

1. I can read / follow instructions
2. I am logical and can search for assistance, if the need arises
3. I have a multi-tool / screwdriver for assembly

Is there really anything else you need?? LOL

I don't mean to downplay it so much but in all honesty it really is not as hard as people would have you think. It's not exactly rocket science and I'd argue that it's almost more difficult to cook than it is to assemble a computer.

No, I don't build my own cars, TV, etc. but that's a little silly now, isn't it? Do you honestly know of any BIY TV's on the market? Kit cars are wildly popular and currently I would not build my own as I lack:

1. The tools and workspace necessary to build one
2. The expertise necessary to build a car as they aren't exaclty like LEGOs or pre-assembled computer parts that fit simply into defined areas in a case or on a motherboard
3. The desire to do so

But you better believe that if I did have those 3 items I'd be building that 427 Cobra :)

Oh and safety is a concern. If your BIY computer fails what happens? You're buying new parts or saying "f*ck it" and going to Best Buy and grabbing an OEM one, should you not have the qualifications I list earlier. If your BIY car fails, you're possibly dead or causing significant bodily or property damage as a result. That's a little different than assembling a simple computer.
 
Quote from TraderZones:

Here is a configuration I did on Dell, maximizing the Optiplex:. Note, I only did 160Gb Hard Drive, but not sure why you need 1.5 Terabyte. And this comes with a 3 year warranty - parts and labor. Free Shipping. Total cost, $671...
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I have stated that before, and should emphasize it once again. Building It Yourself will most likely cost more. There is no doubt about it. It is the "economy of scale" principle. Building your own car from parts would most likely cost more than buying a ready-made model from the manufacturer.

The reason for BIY is not for saving money. Because even if the parts cost the same, the amount of time spent in building one would make it not worth doing.

The reason for BIY would be more for fulfilling a need that is not satisfied by the models available in the market. For me that is my need for having more than 3 available PCI/PCIe slots and a faster processor.

Do I need a 1.5TB disk? No. I don't "need" it. It was on sale. For only $20 more than a 750GB disk. Why not? I can turn this PC into a home file server or a backup vault. I can also use the disk space to sort out my digital photos after work. More disk space is alway better than less.

Note that your Dell computer, though sold at $671, has a Celeron Core 2 Duo E7600 chip. Ranking is 2113.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

Mine is a i7 930 2.80GHz, ranking is 5858

As I said, prices vary a bit depending on the processor used and the amount of memory. Same goes for the PCs sold in stores. There are roughly 3 classes:

- Low end, around $400 to $500
- Mid end, around $700 to $900
- High end, around $1000 to $1300


Quote from TraderZones:


BASE OptiPlex 380 Desktop Base Up to 88 Percent Efficient PSU edit
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E7600 with VT (3.06GHz, 3M, 1066MHz FSB) edit
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Quote from TraderZones:

Your credentials, please? I think this is a bad idea for most people.

Do you build your own car? Your own TV? etc.?
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Oh, come on TraderZones. :)

This is very different from building your own car. Building your own car requires special tools (a garage, wrenches, engine haul, jacks, etc..). TV? It will cost you more just to buy the plasma glass than the whole TV.

But it is really not that hard to put a PC together from components. There are only about 7 to 8 hardware pieces. Physically mount them - takes a screw driver and perhaps a pair of pliers. The rest is wire connection. Most of the wires use different receptacles for different things (e.g. power wires versus SATA versus IDE versus USB, etc..). Hooking up wrong wires to the wrong socket is unlikely. And one should follow the user guide from the motherboard. There are schematic diagrams in there.

Most of the functions of a PC is provided in the motherboard. The rest is really just to plug in the processor chip, the memory clips, the peripherals (hard disk, DVDRW drive, etc.).

How hard can this be?

If you can write a C++ program to do your automated trading strategies, you can do this! :)


As for warranty... yeah, yeah. That's why stores like Fry's make so much money off the "extended" warranty. They are taking money from 95% of the purchases to pay for those cases lying outside the 2 sigma bands.


I used to be a DIY guy but as I grow older I don't bother with a lot of those. (I used to build my sunroom and balcony in my backyard from a kit and lumbers from Home Depot.)

Now I just do what is necessary for my business.
 
Quote from VoodooMMI:

Which version of windows are you running on this machine?
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Currently I put XP Home SP3 on the box. TradeStation 8.7 runs just fine. I am getting Windows 7 64-bit.
 
Quote from bmills313:


I, myself, am pro-BIY for the following reasons:

- Price
- Ease of assembly, support from users and manufacturers
- Availability of replacement parts, should the need arise
- Less down-time vs. OEM's needing warranty replacement
- Control of every single piece of HW and software that runs on the system

and anti-OEM (in this case Dell, but everyone will suffer the same) for the following reasons:

- Price ($414.99 savings versus a comparable Dell, though that Dell did not have 64-bit Win7 as I used)
- Control over HW parts/assembly
- Control over installed software/bloatware
- Ability to get EXACTLY what you want, not a menu of choices
- Dependence on shoddy customer service
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You listed your points very well Bryan.

I think Dells are good boxes. I had used some in my last company but I have never owned one personally. I have some HPs and e-Machines. HPs are nice (the desktop) and I like them. But I bought a lemon HP laptop.

Manufacturers locking down on everything is annoying to me. That is how IBM does business. You never touch an IBM anything you void your service contract. They will send a technician (probably in a black 3-piece suit) to come to your business with X hour to change a LED. But of course you need to pay them in tens of thousands a year for such a privilege.

I think it should be better for consumers to have open systems. In fact that's how the OEM computer companies (remember Eagle, Packard Bell, etc.) bloomed like mushrooms in the mid 80's. But the industry had a shake out and now we end up with only a few makes. The milk cow Gateway is hard to be seen these days. HP swallowed Compaq who swallowed DEC who beaten up Data General. HP's original PC line of Vectra really sucked and it's the Compaq PC lines that helped them. Anyway... I had gotten too far.

The Boli Trading Computer brand is on the rise. ;-)
 
Ok, I can see you guys think building your own is a piece of cake, but it's still not something I feel comfortable with.

What I'd like to know, if anyone could help, is whether you think it's better to go to a dell or a small computer shop in the area. I realize the small guy could go out of business, but what are the other considerations?
 
Quote from wave:

http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5999284&CatId=4928

Can this be built cheaper than the price quoted? Thanks.
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At $4691, I would say probably.

You need to do some homework yourself to figure it out.

I give you a base line:

Mine was about $1200.

The processor: their i7 980, about $700 higher than my i7 930

The DVD: they use a bluray, may be $200 more

Windows-7: add $200

Memory: 12GB just the same

Graphic card: I am not familiar with what they use. Figure out a high end gaming graphics card is about $200 to $300

Disk drive: 1.5TB - about the same

Solid State Drive: That's something I am totally unfamiliar with. They provide 2 SSD 64GB each.



So the SSD is what you need to look more into.
 
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