Broadband Problem / Load Balancer

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:Winston, I am having basically the same issue as the OP. I suspect part of it is that my router and modem are several years old. It's not really affecting me but it is annoying to not get what you're paying for.

I wish you would expand a bit on the need for a switch and why, as you wrote, you shouldn't plug the PC directly into a router. I am running a pretty basic 4 PC setup on a hardwired router and from time to time I need to free up an extra port for my wife's use. Being able to plug in a wireless router for her would be ideal.

Ok well first thing is first. There are best practices in every industry and most IT guys (I'd consider myself on the good/novice level of this scale) will tell you that you always isolate these - I've never seen (outside of a home or small business) a server closet that has computers plugged into the router.

There are two other things - home/retail grade linksys routers like a WRT54G or even the newer ones like WRT310N, etc. all have a certain life span - they get old & die. Next is that they use a VERY small and slow processor which can limit the throughput even on a 1:1 wired network down to something pretty slow.

The way to maximize or optimize your hardware's performance is to let each device do what it does best. A home/retail grade router is a ROUTER - not a switch. The router can use a lot of CPU and RAM just to handle switched network traffic (like if you have file sharing turned on or a Network Storage Device). These little home routers aren't robust enough to handle switching network traffic AND handling bandwidth throughput in excess of ~25mbps.

A switch is a dumb device that will "switch" network traffic. It has its own processor so even at the home level you'll now have two devices, each with RAM and a CPU - your router can route traffic and your switch can switch traffic - but switches are bad at routing and routers are bad (or not always great) at switching.

Windows constantly sends out ping packets to other devices on the network (think LAN/Intranet). These things can all be turned off on each Windows machine but that's a pain for your wife or your kids. OR - you can let the switch handle it because it's all internal traffic that the switch is built & designed to handle.

Let's say you have a little D-Link NAS with a few movies and some music on it. If your kids want to stream a movie and you have both the NAS and the computer plugged into the router then the router has to handle that switch traffic. It's CPU & RAM will have to process & buffer the entire movie as well as your wireless traffic (think iPhones, iPads, BlackBerrys, Android, etc.).

If you have a switch and both the PC and the NAS are plugged into that switch then the switch handles 100% of that movie's data transfer. You could unplug the router from the wall and still stream that movie - so this just frees up system resources on the router to do routing only functions. It makes a big difference.

These little home setups end up trying to perform functions of a high-end router, switch, DHCP server, Wireless Access Point - all for about $100. What ends up happening is that the engineers make compromises so they are capable of performing each task but they don't do any of them really well (this is especially true of the routers with wireless + wired all-in-one types).

Because this stuff gets so cheap and so fast you can go out and buy a few extra devices - you'll have an 8 or 16 port switch so now your wife won't need you to plug & unplug from the router.


The easiest way to look at it is to view your router as a device that handles your bandwidth and assigns IPs on the network.

Let the switch handle the network traffic.

I'm not saying everyone MUST adhere to these rules - if you are happy with your connectivity might as well KISS and leave it alone. If you are having issues however, you can turn a home setup into something that is equal to most small prop groups, hedge funds or other larger businesses not in finance.

Quote from mgookin:

If someone has a router and multiple computers and they want to benchmark the datarate, shouldn't they bypass the router and connect to a single computer for the most accurate result?

Yes 100% - that'll give you an accurate idea of whether or not you are getting what you pay for.

On the other hand, you should be getting the same numbers directly from the modem or through a router and series of switches - if not the signal has degraded along the way and you have issues.
 
Quote from Swan Noir:

This is my latest result using Time Warner's speed test from their new modem to their central office:

Download Speed: 30957 kbps (3869.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 5159 kbps (644.9 KB/sec transfer rate)

I assume, but do not know, that these two go through my router:

Speedtest.net
Down: 30.57 Mbps
Up: 5.17 Mbps
Ping: 11 ms

Speakeasy.Com (To Chicago):
Down: 23.57 Mbps
Up: 5.09 Mbps

I believe I have a 10 x 100 Ethernet Card in the three year old Dell. These numbers make sense for a guy who rarely has more than a dozen charts open?

Many thanks.

The highest sustained draw that I've ever seen was about 20mbps (closer to 17mbps) and that was one machine during the flash crash (may 6th 20?? forget the year). There is no way that you should ever be pulling more than 5-8mbps sustained during normal trading conditions. I think you'll find that the 30mbps download is nice for netflix & youtube but where you'll really notice a difference is that you can now push 5+mbps upload. That's key.


Do you notice any difference in speeds when your family is home & plugged in vs. when everyone is in school/work?


EDIT: I saw a lot of people asked me questions- hope I answered them all, if not please bump & ask again or send me a PM and I'm happy to quote & reply.
 
Since I am on cable I have historically noticed a major difference between trading hours and nights/weekends. I am fortunate to be in an exclusively residential neighborhood so the best performance is during RTH. That is why I a stunned at the numbers on a snowy Saturday afternoon when most people are home and many at the computer.

And yes, the upload is key as, I believe, is the latency.

Quote from WinstonTJ:

The highest sustained draw that I've ever seen was about 20mbps (closer to 17mbps) and that was one machine during the flash crash (may 6th 20?? forget the year). There is no way that you should ever be pulling more than 5-8mbps sustained during normal trading conditions. I think you'll find that the 30mbps download is nice for netflix & youtube but where you'll really notice a difference is that you can now push 5+mbps upload. That's key.


Do you notice any difference in speeds when your family is home & plugged in vs. when everyone is in school/work?


EDIT: I saw a lot of people asked me questions- hope I answered them all, if not please bump & ask again or send me a PM and I'm happy to quote & reply.
 
Quote from WinstonTJ:

Sorry to come late to this party.

OP - (I think OP was Swan??) you need more bandwidth and your upload is probably the thing killing you not your download. Slow upload speeds can throttle your download because confirmation data can't be uploaded fast enough to keep up with download capacity.

I was just joking with a guy the other day on an on-site field call... They were running a FiOS 150/50 line through a crappy Linksys home router (a WRT54G). Most home/retail routers can't push more than 10-35mbit through them sustained. Depending on the wireless configurations and depending on how old they are they can be pretty slow and terrible to trade on.


Here is a $150-$200 solution that'll get your home setup to equal or rival most businesses and small hedge funds:

(I wish someone would sticky this because I'm sick of typing it out)


First of all - plug your computer directly into the modem (I know its a pain in the ass and i scream bloody murder when TWC tells me to do it but they have a point) and redo your speedtest. I have no idea what type of computer/motherboard you are using but consider using an extra add-in NIC vs. the onboard Motherboard NIC. The onboard ones use CPU and system memory and bus bandwidth wheras you can buy a server-grade NIC that's got it's own onboard processor and buffers, etc. so it'll help to both speed up your machine AND make your internet connection more reliable.

I recommend Intel's Pro 1000 NICs. Get them on eBay used - they are cheap... buy two if you are uncomfortable with used. They are only going cheap because they are a bit old for datacenters but they are awesome NICs. I buy the Intel Pro 1000 MT (PCI-X) and the Intel Pro 1000 PT (PCI-e). Dual-port is fine. The MT is going to be less than $15 shipped and the PT is going to run a bit more (plan on spending $50-60 but you can get lucky and snag them for $25-$30 each... I look all day every day for those deals though :) ). They are both MORE than fine to handle your needs. The PT can handle really up to a full gig connection but the MT is starting to get a bit old and I don't like using them in applications requiring over 100mbit sustained @ full duplex.

So re-test with your machine plugged in.
Spend $15-$20 on eBay and get a decent NIC.

Next... What kind of router are you using? Do you have TWC's SMC modem (the DOCSIS 3.0) or do you have one of those tiny grey square ones?


Computers should never be plugged directly into routers. You should always have your WAN >> Modem >> Router >> Switch >> Computers & Devices. Or in the case of a wireless access point... WAN >> Modem >> Router >> Switch >> Wireless Access Point >> laptops, phones, POS devices, etc.

Spend a bit of cash and buy a Linksys RV042 dual-WAN wired router. $50 on ebay - get a used one, upgrade the firmware and be done with it.

This is the lowest end of their RV line (they make RV042, RV082 & RV016). This is all 100mbit (NOT gigabit) however this is small business and these routers can handle 100mbit traffic at full duplex (meaning download 100mbit at same time as you upload 100mbit). They have dual-WAN and they have plenty of VPN capacity. They are lacking in the port-forward area but for most people that's OK. VNC is fine but multiple Remote Desktop gets to be a pain because port forwarding is only A:A not dynamic like A:B or A:F (where A, B & F are all port numbers).

Your home internet connection is never going to be over 100mbit on TWC so don't waste the $$ on a gigabit small business router when you only need 100meg. Or if you have the cash - spend the $600 on a decent gig router but if you do send me a PM because I'll either have some decent used stuff to sell you or keep trying to talk you out of it.



So at this point you spend hopefully $15 on a Intel Pro 1000 MT dual-port NIC. $50 on a Linksys RV042 router (and have updated the firmware) and now you need a switch.

I'm partial to Dell. I like them even though the latest firmware is a bit buggy with Chrome & IE9. They are awesome, reliable and a few years ago used to be really expensive. I like Dell's PowerConnect 2716 (16-port) managed gigabit switches. The 2708 is fine but 8-ports go quick and the 2724 has a built in fan and its pretty darn loud (which sucks at home).

You can turn the rack mount ears 90 degrees and mount them to a wall, or lay them on a shelf. Easy, cheap ($50) and REALLY robust for a home network.




That's $115 so far and all you need to do is plug your existing home/retail wireless router into your Dell PowerConnect 2716 switch and you have a wireless access point plus 14 open ports on your switch to attach computers, printers, etc.

You can control your wireless network (throttle your kids during school vacation weeks so you can still trade) separately from your wired network, setup VPNs or even get a second DSL/dialup connection to run with your dual-WAN Linksys RV042 small business router and you have also helped your computer's performance by freeing up system resources and pushing them off to a dedicated server-grade network card.

All for $150-$200... or if you are a good eBay'er you can get it for much less.


If you do all of the above (even if you don't and your test results with PC plugged directly into the modem are similar to previous) I'd raise bloody hell with TWC. They may need to replace the cable between the pole & your house - which is THEIR COST NOT YOURS IT IS IN YOUR CONTRACT THAT THEY OWN EVERYTHING UP TO THE MODEM. Make them start replacing wires... make them give you advertised speeds... And if you can swing $100/month see if they offer the Wide-Band service (50 down 5 up) its pretty good and I've been happy with it.


I know this has been a really long post but in all seriousness your router could be the bottleneck (or part of it).

Think of it this way - i live in NYC by lots of Columbia University dorms/students. I can see over 50 access points & SSIDs when I look up what's out there on my laptop. If you were your router you are a dumb device - you send out a wireless signal and look for people with the right access code. Your router's CPU is probably something like 300hz (like 0.3ghz) and it's got to deal with deciding who belongs and who doesn't.

My dad worked from home for a while in a very residential neighborhood and we sat there one day and I showed him how even the people walking their dogs down the street... the router saw their blackberry or iPhone and had to process it.

In NYC I have to shut down my SSID and use filtering to block all - but in a residential neighborhood you can probably not worry about security as much however you still need to know that your home & kids & neighbors, etc. all have stuff that's slowing down your router. Isolate it and put it on a separate port on a switch, give it an advertised 10mbit (or 5??) bandwidth allocation during trading hours and you'll notice a massive difference.


30 paragraphs later I need to do a bit of work so I can pay the bills. Happy to answer questions or PMs about this stuff.

Cheers!

how to get from http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&highlight=power+supply+WinstonTJ#post2259174

to this?
 

I might not have been the best in school but my teachers always said I am smart. :D

Career change - kinda got out of Finance and I'm doing IT stuff right now almost full-time. Virtualization, development and hardware compatibility testing, chatting on ET all day...

Think about it... a PhD takes what ~2 years?

Over the last two years I moved from Boston to NYC, worked with some pretty high-end HFT trading shops - all the way up to NYSE MM firms. Had the opportunity to work with and learn from some of the best in the business - and unlike most I took the time to learn, pay attention and be thankful for my opportunities.

So I learned a lot about IT & Technology in the last two years and now I'm happy to help others and share what (little) I know on the subject.
 
Ok, that made some sense. I have a background in IT, but more on the OS side than networking. I am also going through some network/connectivity issues. Here is my setup, maybe you can help me optimize it and hopefully everyone else will benefit. I have been having some stuttering and lag on my data feeds so that is what has prompted me to start upgrading.

I did some troubleshooting with my ISP's support and everything seems to check out with my internet service and runs at the speed I am paying for when I took the old router out of the loop and connected straight to the modem.

I have 3mbps/.5mpbs internet. The old wireless router is a Linksys WRV54G (purchased in 2004). Two days ago I ordered a Linksys/Cisco E4200 wireless router. I bought it directly from Linksys refurbished for $110 shipped. I hooked it up last night and immediately noticed a nice improvement in the web, both wired and wireless.

My computer setup is two PC's that I trade on. Third machine is one of those little Acer desktop PC's that run on an Intel atom that I use as a webserver for a very low volume website. Fourth machine is an old laptop that I use for downloading stuff with emule. Fifth machine is my girlfriends laptop, she is also home during trading hours and surfs on her laptop via wireless. I don't run the old laptop to download with emule ever during trading hours, it is turned off.

The old router didn't come close to 54mpbs wireless, but the new E4200 is giving me 65mpbs wireless and is showing that it is connecting to the two PC's at 1Gbps. I am using the onboard NIC on both of the motherboards. I will pick up two of the Intel NIC cards you suggested for the two PC's I use to trade with. I can also pick up a Linksys RV042 and use that instead of the E4200, the 4200 has a good return policy. My question is if I got rid of the E4200, I could use my old Linksys router for wireless and plug that in somewhere, but it is really tired and not nearly as fast via wireless as the new E4200 so I would prefer to get rid of it. I still need to be able to port forward to the web server. How would you suggest I set everything up? Should I buy a switch or maybe a wireless switch?
 
Quote from WinstonTJ:

I might not have been the best in school but my teachers always said I am smart. :D

Career change - kinda got out of Finance and I'm doing IT stuff right now almost full-time. Virtualization, development and hardware compatibility testing, chatting on ET all day...

Think about it... a PhD takes what ~2 years?

Over the last two years I moved from Boston to NYC, worked with some pretty high-end HFT trading shops - all the way up to NYSE MM firms. Had the opportunity to work with and learn from some of the best in the business - and unlike most I took the time to learn, pay attention and be thankful for my opportunities.

So I learned a lot about IT & Technology in the last two years and now I'm happy to help others and share what (little) I know on the subject.

Intelligent and quick study, that's why I read all your posts. :)

Appreciate you sharing some of this knowledge here, always learn smthg reading your replies. Keep up great work! :)
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:



I wish you would expand a bit on the need for a switch and why, as you wrote, you shouldn't plug the PC directly into a router.

Winston, I too wish you'd explain this and the reasons behind it a bit more. TIA
 
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