Quote from stonedinvestor:
First off anyone with a semblance of knowledge on military affairs knows Britain can take care of itself. I'm not buying into the suddenly toothless tiger scenario one bit. They happen to excel in top secret dirty trick stuff which is well suited to a prisoner situation. This fog of war excuse is BS. One of two things happened either the Iranians approached disguised as fishing boat or cargo ships and suddenly attacked or they came in real obvious pretending to search documents and then coerced the soldiers into a speeding boat to Iranian waters. By that point any commander worth his rank would have placed his cruiser with it's multi million dollar defense system and pinpoint targeting ability right on top of them. This We're afraid to go into Iranian waters is BS. I'm sure one way or another we are in there every day. The point is in the open sea a boat has captured your friends and is taking them top a place where they will be humiliated, possible tortured and maybe killed. Are you going to depend on " proper " channels all the way to their graves? I think this was the point the American commander was making in a non so subtle way-- Us uncouth American types we'll just blow your ass out of the water and pay reparations later. it's the better way.
I do have a "semblence" of knowledge when it comes to military affairs because ..I was in the military, and served during IRAQ 1. SoI can tell you quite a bit about how things play out when it comes to ROE in the gulf.
First, the British ship in questin is a frigate, not a cruiser. They typically have 5" guns for NGFS, 50 Cal to deal with FPB, and an anti air defense system known as sea whiz, and an ASW platform to attack and prosecute enemy subs, it's principle duty is to find and destroy enemy subs. Top speed, is around 30 knots, maybe slightly slower. This ship is equipped to defend itself against a missle or two, but can't really defend itself against an air attack, and can hold it's own during a surface battle. A FPB can easily out maneuver and out run this vessel. NGFS is not extemely accurate. It's easy to be off by 500 yards, do you expect the commander to blast away at the FPB with this gun and risk killing his own men and women? 50 Cal's could do the job, but then you have to close the distance, and the danger of hitting your own men is very real. So much for pinpoint targeting systems and multimillion dollar defense systems. This ship can hunt subs, and the truth is, they don't even do a good job of finding them. You want to catch subs, you need other subs to do it.
You may be right, the Iranians could have disguised themselves as fishing vessels. What I do know, is that given their proximity to Iranian waters, the entire evolution would take only 3 or 4 minutes, hell a cruiser making 5 knots will take 3 minutes to get up to speed and close the distance, by then they are well into Iranian waters. From what I've seen, the cruiser was at least 3 NM away from at the time of the incident, making response time at least 6 minutes at best, and 8 minutes or so more likely.
I havn't seen the ROE, or standing orders, but I can guarantee you that the commander of this ship was instructed to avoid Iranian waters. NO admiral is going to allow the possiblity of creating an international crisis and ruining his career in the hands of a commander of a frigate.
As for the Fog of War, it's very real. It does happen. In this case, shipping, lots of shipping, small vessels, etc.
As for dealing with the situation, I am all for giving them 8 hours to return the crew members, or let the fireworks begin. Iran needs to learn, you mess with the bull....you get the horns!
