Bright vs. Genesis vs. Tuco vs. xEcho ?

Quote from jd7419:

Fees are very important guys. Don't let anyone tell you different. When I first started trading 8 years ago at broadway trading I was paying 2 cents a share(ouch). Anyway I negotiated rates lower along my career based on volumes. I am NEVER happy with my rates and am always looking to negotiate them lower.

I don't want to bash Don here but imo 1 cent on the first 1000 is just too much even for a brand new trader. I would say that anything above.004 to .005 cents a share is too much and experienced traders should look for much lower.

Example 1= Trader Jim grosses $230,000 on 20,000,000 shares for the year. With a .01 rate and assuming $15,000 in sec fees his net profit would be $15,000. (I know brights rates are lower than this I am just making an example of a high commissions vs low).

Example 2 = Trader Bob grosses $230,000 on 20,000,000 shares for year. With a .004 rate his net profit including $15,000 sec fees = $135,000.

Commisions really are more important than most things in this business. As long as you are dealing with a reputable firm with a vpn connection and a good manager( there are about 6 of them I can think of off hand), I would advise you to get your commisions as low as possible.
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Who do you trade through?
 
OK, before this "rates" thing gets out of hand. Examples showing 20Million per year traders would never pay 1 cent. Yes, the brand new people may pay a penny while they are new and trading small, where it makes little difference in their bottom line. All shares above 1,000 on any order are .004. A seasoned trader will pay around 50 cents per hundred when trading in 2000 share lots, and much lower than a penny no matter what. And, yes, the entire "package" is really what counts. Judging by the traders who come from other Firm's, I think we're pretty competitive overall.

Don
 
so don you say seasoned traders pay 50 cents per hundred on 2 k shares which means the first 1000 shares has to be .007 or so.so i'm sure you got seasoned guys doing 100-200k a day and if they do 1k shares are less they'r e paying .007 which is just freakin mind boggling in todays environment.i looked at bright in 2001 and those were your rates back then. are you telling me your rates are the same as 2001?my god somebody doing 100-200k a day should not be paying over .002-.0025 and that inludes 100-1 leverage or more,free office and all the bells and whistles from free esignal to other perks. were i give credit is don has created the impression his firm is above other firms and giving you something you're not getting elsewere. don is wrong and for high vol traders commissions are very important, an example is don's .005 for 2k shares. many traders scale and do 500-1k shares so they're probably at .006 with bright. 4 million shares a month at .002 vs brights .006 could be a difference of up to 16k a month in commissions or almost 200k a year which is incredible. tons of people are over paying huge in fee's as there managers are getting filthy rich off them. fight back and demand lower fees as most managers won't want to lose you
 
Quote from john12:

so don you say seasoned traders pay 50 cents per hundred on 2 k shares which means the first 1000 shares has to be .007 or so.so i'm sure you got seasoned guys doing 100-200k a day and if they do 1k shares are less they'r e paying .007 which is just freakin mind boggling in todays environment.i looked at bright in 2001 and those were your rates back then. are you telling me your rates are the same as 2001?my god somebody doing 100-200k a day should not be paying over .002-.0025 and that inludes 100-1 leverage or more,free office and all the bells and whistles from free esignal to other perks. were i give credit is don has created the impression his firm is above other firms and giving you something you're not getting elsewere. don is wrong and for high vol traders commissions are very important, an example is don's .005 for 2k shares. many traders scale and do 500-1k shares so they're probably at .006 with bright. 4 million shares a month at .002 vs brights .006 could be a difference of up to 16k a month in commissions or almost 200k a year which is incredible. tons of people are over paying huge in fee's as there managers are getting filthy rich off them. fight back and demand lower fees as most managers won't want to lose you
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100k-200K per day traders pay a very competitive commission, I assure you. And several have returned from the other Firms, and are very happy.

Don :)
 
I have been trading for 8-9 years, and have traded with several firms (always retail, never prop).

Of the firms listed for comment, I would recommend Tuco. The guys running the shop are honest and helpful. Rates matter alot....and anyone paying over .005 really should do a bit more homework (even at firms offering additional leverage). There are several good firms out there that provide Honest management, good leverage ( if you need it), reliable back office, and fare rates (whether you are a new trader or not).

p.s. Rates matter to New traders as well!!! We were all there once.....and I for one did not like paying .024 at Cornerstone back in the day!!
 
Quote from Don Bright:

OK, before this "rates" thing gets out of hand. Examples showing 20Million per year traders would never pay 1 cent. Yes, the brand new people may pay a penny while they are new and trading small, where it makes little difference in their bottom line. All shares above 1,000 on any order are .004. A seasoned trader will pay around 50 cents per hundred when trading in 2000 share lots, and much lower than a penny no matter what. And, yes, the entire "package" is really what counts. Judging by the traders who come from other Firm's, I think we're pretty competitive overall.

Don
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Thanks for clearing that up.

Backs up my statement...anybody taking that deal needs their head examined.
 
the rates are high no matter what. now .005 all in rate and scaling down on volume would be more competitive in this environment. most traders have a base rate plus or minus fees. so the all in rates don't benefit most active traders. most traders are paying a avg of 3.50 per thousand base plus or minus... and lower with volume. a far cry from 1 penny all in, even with all the benefits of leverage that is offered, traders still need to take profitable trades, but it does dramatically effect the bottom line any way you look at it.. trading is tough enough without paying a much higher comm, i am sure if your comm rates were more competitive it would encourage more traders to see the other benefits your firm may offer its traders.
 
i've been reading these threads with interest the last couple of days and it seems that all the traders describe prop as a last chance to work, when you cant get another job-everyone seems unhappy and describe that u are lucky if u make 100k in first year---is anybody out there bullish about the bisiness and if so share some stories of success-you seem burnt

thanks guys
 
quote from jd7419

Example 2 = Trader Bob grosses $230,000 on 20,000,000 shares for year. With a .004 rate his net profit including $15,000 sec fees = $135,000.
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WOW !!!!!!! SHOCKING !!!!!!!!!

Even at .004 a share this trader pays $80,000 a year in commish.
Difficult for trader to overcome this commish amount and still make a good living?
 
Well when i first stared trading i went to Genesis and i was a newbie
They quoted me 0.05 so $5 per 1K shares
I went to HLV they quoted me $6 per 1K
I went to an another firm they quoted me 200k shares and under 0.05 mean $5 for every 1K shares.
I mean just because i am a newbie does not mean i have to pay $10 per 1K shares. that is like screwing me cause i am new.
I was offerend leverage 20-1 which i thought was too much with my 10 K
The only thing i have to say is that rates do matter
 
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