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Bright Trading's new payout model
- Thread starter Maverick74
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This was what I was thinking, was the only logical answer to my question. And if this is the case, then yes, I agree, it is unfair and should be corrected immediately by the SEC, with no valid possible argument to the contrary to allow it to continue.
The few should not profit from the exploitation of the masses in a modern, educated, civilised society.
The few should not profit from the exploitation of the masses in a modern, educated, civilised society.
Quote from lescor:
Mav and a couple others say the playing field is level because anyone who wants to pay enough money for the right setup can enter sub-penny orders.
Does that about sum it up? What am I missing here? [/B]
rule 612 re sub pennying, some of the lurkers may benefit from
reading this, knowledge is power.
www.stocktrading.com/subpenny.ppt
reading this, knowledge is power.
www.stocktrading.com/subpenny.ppt
It's funny how the identities of the major protagonists of this thread are a a metaphor (or fractal, if you will) of the meat of the discussion. Don Bright (not an alias), representing a known firm (Bright Trading), advocates greater transparency in the markets and a level playing field, while Maverick (probably an alias, PM for details), who admittedly works for an unnamed broker/dealer (without HFT customers or connections, wink, wink) defends the current system (dark pools, b/d internalization, sub-pennying, flash orders, etc), as unchanged in its reliance on corruption, so get over it, Don.
Coming soon to an opera house near you.
Coming soon to an opera house near you.
Ultimately, regulation is determined to what benefits the average investor and well avg joe can't spend that kind of money to co-locate. When there is no public, there is no real market. It's just sharks and killer whales now. The flash crash had all to do with the fact that these "market makers" are proprietary trading stratgegies in disguise. Sure, can't expect MM's to just be waiters and not profit, but the skew overwhelmingly favors the MM. And they've got risk controls, if the market is collapsing and domino'ing, why participate? Why make a market? That was May. Hence, circuit breakers. Regulators realize MM's can't be counted on.
Today's mantra for the MM is "Me profit first, serve market/provide liquidity second", vs. the old auction system where "provide liquidity first, get to trade account in exchange for offering that service".
Today's mantra for the MM is "Me profit first, serve market/provide liquidity second", vs. the old auction system where "provide liquidity first, get to trade account in exchange for offering that service".
Quote from Maverick74:
But Don, why the charade. Why is Dennis Dick going on CNBC? You were running around like a chicken with your head cut off screaming or implying that something illegal was going on and this must be stopped. The field is level. You just get the service you pay for.
Obviously eating at a fast food restaurant is not as good as eating at a 5 star restaurant. But it costs more money to eat at the 5 star restaurant. It's unfortunate that there are many in our society that don't have the funds to enjoy that luxury but as I said before, it's available, at a cost. I thought I was going crazy there for a moment. I just could not see what you and Dennis were complaining about.
And please for the love of god with that power point of yours, stop blaming the flash crash on sub penny stuff. I posted earlier my thoughts on that. The sub penny had nothing to do with the flash crash.
Quote from a1elitetrader:
It's funny how the identities of the major protagonists of this thread are a a metaphor (or fractal, if you will) of the meat of the discussion. Don Bright (not an alias), representing a known firm (Bright Trading), advocates greater transparency in the markets and a level playing field, while Maverick (probably an alias, PM for details), who admittedly works for an unnamed broker/dealer (without HFT customers or connections, wink, wink) defends the current system (dark pools, b/d internalization, sub-pennying, flash orders, etc), as unchanged in its reliance on corruption, so get over it, Don.
Coming soon to an opera house near you.
Take the tin foil hat off your head. Everyone on this forum knows my BD is VTrader. Most people also know my name. I keep regular office hours and many ET members call me and meet with me in person. My two main points on this topic are one, hypocrisy and two, over regulation. Don admitted himself the issue was his firm's desire not to pay up to play the game. That is his decision. Other's have paid up and are playing. Some of them are profiting from that, others are not. Just like any other market.
Quote from Lights:
Ultimately, regulation is determined to what benefits the average investor and well avg joe can't spend that kind of money to co-locate. When there is no public, there is no real market. It's just sharks and killer whales now. The flash crash had all to do with the fact that these "market makers" are proprietary trading stratgegies in disguise. Sure, can't expect MM's to just be waiters and not profit, but the skew overwhelmingly favors the MM. And they've got risk controls, if the market is collapsing and domino'ing, why participate? Why make a market? That was May. Hence, circuit breakers. Regulators realize MM's can't be counted on.
Lights, one more time, the flash crash started in the currency markets, not in PG stock. How do you suggest we regulate the currency markets to prevent the next flash crash. I'm all ears.
REad above, I added an edit.
Flash crashes happen when HFT market makers don't wanna participate, cos their risk management programs tell them to shut off.
Flash crashes happen when HFT market makers don't wanna participate, cos their risk management programs tell them to shut off.
Quote from Maverick74:
Lights, one more time, the flash crash started in the currency markets, not in PG stock. How do you suggest we regulate the currency markets to prevent the next flash crash. I'm all ears.
Currencies, bonds, futures, stocks. ALL THE SAME THING in the master global spreadsheet. This is the flaw of electronic markets where intercorrelations are arbitraged by obscene leverage. When there is systemic risk, currency HFT market makers also turn off.
May was make money/don't lose first, make markets second.
May was make money/don't lose first, make markets second.
Quote from Maverick74:
Lights, one more time, the flash crash started in the currency markets, not in PG stock. How do you suggest we regulate the currency markets to prevent the next flash crash. I'm all ears.
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