Bright Trading's new payout model

[CQNC]

Anyone passing the regulatory approval process and the minimum capital requirement can become BD to access Tier 1. $2500 a month for a CBSX and $100K. That's it. Does th e CBOE take VISA?

Please, this isn't like needing to know the secret password for admission into The StoneCutters or if have special birthmark on your ass, you're in Homer.

Just buy your way in, and if you can't, play the game at the level you're allowed the best you can.

Or, what Maverick just said. LOL.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from Maverick74:

Thanks for quoting me Don. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Got distracted by GS (who else, LOL)...clicked too soon... this damn senility is a nightmare...

So click back a page to see my response - I would link it here, but I don't know how to do that....just a new guy here.

Don

 

[CQNC]

What I don't understand about the argument is, why, if one can see the order at .001, the trader isn't adjusting his range of execution in his limit order to allow for that possibility and get filled within that range? If his order is at 14 and the other order is at 14.001, that's part of the spread, and if you're not filled, too bad. I don't see what's unfair about that.

I don't trade like this, so I'm not an expert, it just seems logical to me.

Quote from MushinSeeker:

The guy from Bright was complaining why should he not get the benefit of the fill at 14 when he is risking capital during the flash crash. Why should he get the benefit of the fill when someone is willing to pay an extra penny for it?

He makes it sound like he is using real $ to buy the stock @ 14 and the guy willing to pay .001 more is using play money. Daytraders since time past step in front of specialist in the good old days during "cleanup prints",why was it ok then and not now albeit at a sub penny level?

Kinda like the guy who curses at the slow guy driving in front of him in a 25mph zone and the guy on his tail for going too fast .

Mav is right , call a spade a spade..

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from CQNC:

What I don't understand about the argument is, why, if one can see the order at .001, the trader isn't adjusting his range of execution in his limit order to allow for that possibility and get filled within that range? If his order is at 14 and the other order is at 14.001, that's part of the spread, and if you're not filled, too bad. I don't see what's unfair about that.

I don't trade like this, so I'm not an expert, it just seems logical to me.

If you're a .14 bid, and the only displayed order, and a market order comes in to sell, then someone jumps in front of you for .14001 to snag the order, leaving you stranded...and you cannot pay .140002 or something, you would have to pay a full penny more to get executed....but when an order comes in to sell at .10, then the HFT "can" hit your bid at .14 leaning on the lower limit order. So the other marder "saves" a hundreth of a penny, and you either get locked out or pay a full penny, a hundred times ....when you are the only displayed order. You or us simply cannot trade in this lower denomination...that's where the game is not right, IMO.

I say let all the speed in the world continue to get speedier, just give us all the same increments.

This explains it better:

www.stocktrading.com/flashcrash2.ppt

Don

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Don Bright:

As a business decision we don't think the rewards to the Firm or the traders would justify the investment at this point in time....and, again, we don't mind the speed of access etc., more the denomination factor. We didn't dive whole hog into liquidity providing ala my friends at Swift either...that sort of fizzled out, but in all fairness made good money for Charles and Peter.


Don

Thank you Jesus! Thank you Jesus! Praise the Lord!

F*ck! I finally got it out of you. Beer is on me Don. Tell me when.

That's all I wanted you to say. You do not want to spend the money. That is where I've been trying to go. Jesus it took like 10 posts for you to say that. It's not a question of access, it's a question of costs. And you know what Don, those other firms "did" make the investment. They took the risk. And they are entitled to whatever rewards if any come from that. Case closed.

Don, our conversations on here and in person will go much smoother if you just get straight to the point a little faster.

I'm not getting any younger here you know.

 

[CQNC]

OK, for the sake of playing dumb for everyone else out there, even though I am admittedly ignorant when it comes to this argument, I still don't see how this is any different than any other buy/sell spread situation, be it a sub-penny or an 1/8th on the old system, or to the second decimal point previous to HFT moving it into the fourth decimal point now. My trading software allows for orders to be placed in a range to the .0001 increment, so I'll simply place a limit order to execute within .00xx to ensure I'm filled to allow for the possibility of a market order coming in late at .10 and then "stealing" my order at the lower price.

It seems to me, logically speaking, Mr. Spock, that if you're nickel and pennying yourself into a corner like this to get burned, you're not that smart to begin with to allow that possibility, and that maybe, just maybe, the other guy has the jump on you.

Isn't this what trading is about?

I don't remember anyone ever promising me that life was fair.

Quote from Don Bright:

If you're a .14 bid, and the only displayed order, and a market order comes in to sell, then someone jumps in front of you for .14001 to snag the order, leaving you stranded...and you cannot pay .140002 or something, you would have to pay a full penny more to get executed....but when an order comes in to sell at .10, then the HFT "can" hit your bid at .14 leaning on the lower limit order. So the other marder "saves" a hundreth of a penny, and you either get locked out or pay a full penny, a hundred times ....when you are the only displayed order. You or us simply cannot trade in this lower denomination...that's where the game is not right, IMO.

I say let all the speed in the world continue to get speedier, just give us all the same increments.

This explains it better:

www.stocktrading.com/flashcrash2.ppt

Don

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from Maverick74:

Thank you Jesus! Thank you Jesus! Praise the Lord!

F*ck! I finally got it out of you. Beer is on me Don. Tell me when.

That's all I wanted you to say. You do not want to spend the money. That is where I've been trying to go. Jesus it took like 10 posts for you to say that. It's not a question of access, it's a question of costs. And you know what Don, those other firms "did" make the investment. They took the risk. And they are entitled to whatever rewards if any come from that. Case closed.

Don, our conversations on here and in person will go much smoother if you just get straight to the point a little faster.

I'm not getting any younger here you know.

Not a matter of buying computers, but of engaging in something that is "similar" to what I described about Swift, and how they have had their run....big investments for short term profits are not where we like to go. Bright "buying" our way into a different world, although doable, is not what we do...hell, we'd be in the "genteman's club" business if that were the case, LOL.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out...I'm overall optimistic...because trading is still trading.....just different tools.

Don

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from CQNC:

OK, for the sake of playing dumb for everyone else out there, even though I am admittedly ignorant when it comes to this argument, I still don't see how this is any different than any other buy/sell spread situation, be it a sub-penny or an 1/8th on the old system, or to the second decimal point previous to HFT moving it into the fourth decimal point now. My trading software allows for orders to be placed in a range to the .0001 increment, so I'll simply place a limit order to execute within .00xx to ensure I'm filled to allow for the possibility of a market order coming in late at .10 and then "stealing" my order at the lower price.

It seems to me, logically speaking, Mr. Spock, that if you're nickel and pennying yourself into a corner like this to get burned, you're not that smart to begin with to allow that possibility, and that maybe, just maybe, the other guy has the jump on you.

Isn't this what trading is about?

I don't remember anyone ever promising me that life was fair.

You have a valid point, sort of like the shill at the auction who pumps up the price to make the "chump" pay up...is it really the shill's fault...I don't think so. We know that you cannot "hustle" someone who is not trying to hustle you (or someone else).

We are more than willing to share the risks involved competing against smarter people, faster computers, better analytics, quicker news (as long as it is available to everyone, and not "insider" information)...and feel strongly that we will do fine.

The problem is with the actual increments that have circumvented the currency trading standard.

Sure, we could take a machine gun to a knife fight and win, and then we can buy bigger and better guns, but that doesn't make us the winner of the knife fight...insert boxing match weight classes now...gotta keep within your class, can't heavyweight vs. welterweight (sorry, but I'm running out of parallels here, LOL). The boxing commission wouldn't allow that, right?

Don

 

[CQNC]

How much are we talking about here, seriously? $1M, 2M, 5M?

Quote from Maverick74:

Thank you Jesus! Thank you Jesus! Praise the Lord!

F*ck! I finally got it out of you. Beer is on me Don. Tell me when.

That's all I wanted you to say. You do not want to spend the money. That is where I've been trying to go. Jesus it took like 10 posts for you to say that. It's not a question of access, it's a question of costs. And you know what Don, those other firms "did" make the investment. They took the risk. And they are entitled to whatever rewards if any come from that. Case closed.

Don, our conversations on here and in person will go much smoother if you just get straight to the point a little faster.

I'm not getting any younger here you know.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Don Bright:

Not a matter of buying computers, but of engaging in something that is "similar" to what I described about Swift, and how they have had their run....big investments for short term profits are not where we like to go. Bright "buying" our way into a different world, although doable, is not what we do...hell, we'd be in the "genteman's club" business if that were the case, LOL.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out...I'm overall optimistic...because trading is still trading.....just different tools.

Don

But Don, why the charade. Why is Dennis Dick going on CNBC? You were running around like a chicken with your head cut off screaming or implying that something illegal was going on and this must be stopped. The field is level. You just get the service you pay for.

Obviously eating at a fast food restaurant is not as good as eating at a 5 star restaurant. But it costs more money to eat at the 5 star restaurant. It's unfortunate that there are many in our society that don't have the funds to enjoy that luxury but as I said before, it's available, at a cost. I thought I was going crazy there for a moment. I just could not see what you and Dennis were complaining about.

And please for the love of god with that power point of yours, stop blaming the flash crash on sub penny stuff. I posted earlier my thoughts on that. The sub penny had nothing to do with the flash crash.