Bright Trading's new payout model

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Quote from jumper:

I guess we have a different definition of an edge. My definition is not just an idea of how to make money. My definition of an edge is that you already have the skill.
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It doesn't matter how we define what edge is, it still has to be acquired. You can't just buy edge on Craigslist. It takes time to get that edge. I'm talking about guys just starting out. They need TIME. And time is not free. It cost money. Without it you can never acquire, develop or create your edge.

There is no doubt in my mind that Paul Tudor Jones or Steve Cohen could open an account at Bright Trading with 5k and build up a stake. That is not who Bright is recruiting in his boot camps.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

It doesn't matter how we define what edge is, it still has to be acquired. You can't just buy edge on Craigslist. It takes time to get that edge. I'm talking about guys just starting out. They need TIME. And time is not free. It cost money. Without it you can never acquire, develop or create your edge.

There is no doubt in my mind that Paul Tudor Jones or Steve Cohen could open an account at Bright Trading with 5k and build up a stake. That is not who Bright is recruiting in his boot camps.
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who said anything about how you acquire an edge(on craigslist)?? all I said was that an edge is more important than capital. if you have an edge (the ability to make money) than you can start with 20k. i'm not sure why all these issues are brought into it. reread what i said. i know an edge is hard to attain. been there, done that.
 
Quote from jumper:

who said anything about how you acquire an edge(on craigslist)?? all I said was that an edge is more important than capital. if you have an edge (the ability to make money) than you can start with 20k. i'm not sure why all these issues are brought into it. reread what i said. i know an edge is hard to attain. been there, done that.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. Many hedge funds blew up in 2008 not because they did not have an edge, but because they ran out of capital. You have to understand that an edge is not a license to print money or even make money. Capital gets you through the drawdowns. Also when one edge runs out, another must be acquired. All that takes capital.

Anyway my argument deals with new traders. You can give a new trader all the edges in the world, but if they don't have the capital behind them to buy the time to learn how to actually trade, it really doesn't matter. Even Don will tell you that only a small percentage of the bootcampers he brings in ever really makes any kind of money. And supposedly they are learning an "edge".

Once you are already a profitable trader there are a whole new set of variables you have to contend with. But that is not what I am arguing.
 
i thought that hedge funds were hedged how can they blow up?



Quote from Maverick74:

We'll have to agree to disagree. Many hedge funds blew up in 2008 not because they did not have an edge, but because they ran out of capital. You have to understand that an edge is not a license to print money or even make money. Capital gets you through the drawdowns. Also when one edge runs out, another must be acquired. All that takes capital.

Anyway my argument deals with new traders. You can give a new trader all the edges in the world, but if they don't have the capital behind them to buy the time to learn how to actually trade, it really doesn't matter. Even Don will tell you that only a small percentage of the bootcampers he brings in ever really makes any kind of money. And supposedly they are learning an "edge".

Once you are already a profitable trader there are a whole new set of variables you have to contend with. But that is not what I am arguing.
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Quote from Maverick74:

We'll have to agree to disagree. Many hedge funds blew up in 2008 not because they did not have an edge, but because they ran out of capital. You have to understand that an edge is not a license to print money or even make money. Capital gets you through the drawdowns. Also when one edge runs out, another must be acquired. All that takes capital.

Anyway my argument deals with new traders. You can give a new trader all the edges in the world, but if they don't have the capital behind them to buy the time to learn how to actually trade, it really doesn't matter. Even Don will tell you that only a small percentage of the bootcampers he brings in ever really makes any kind of money. And supposedly they are learning an "edge".

Once you are already a profitable trader there are a whole new set of variables you have to contend with. But that is not what I am arguing.
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That's exactly what I was saying. It depends how you define it. You're the one who disagreed with that statement.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

No, an edge is a given. An edge with no equity will get you no where. Look, you guys that talk about spending years building your account. How did you live?
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maybe i misunderstood you, but i thought you were talking about new traders making it and the best model for that (brights, etc). from that context, i don't see how an edge is a given. to answer your question, i didn't have a life... i worked nights about 6-8 hrs and then came home and did another 6-8 hours developing/trading. weekends were great because i got to dedicate a full 12-16 hours to trading. now, i still work 12-16, but sometimes i take weekends off ;). you gotta pay to play, imo.
No sorry man you need the capital. An edge is worthless until you build the skill necessary to use it. It's like a high performance sports car. You [don't] just hand the keys to a 16 year old kid and expect him to be able to handle it even though the car itself is amazing. It takes skill to drive a high performance car. And it takes skill to refine and execute your edge. Edge itself is meaningless.
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well, if an edge is worthless without skill, then i can only think of one thing even more worthless: no edge with no skill and tons of cash. an edge isn't a race car, an edge is a car with a working engine, some wheels, maybe some seatbelts. capital, is like juicing your engine with nos. wouldn't you want to make sure your car had some decent wheels and seatbelts first? especially if you have no idea if the kid can even drive? personally, i'd let the kid drive the honda for a bit before we started juicing his ride, but i'd make damn sure the car wasn't a lemon, because it's my ass if he wrecks.

anyway, i get your point, just not the degree. capital IS important, and it's a good thing that you're investing in your traders like that. i'm not trying to diss your model. shops that are setup with competitve rates, profit sharing and good capital backing are miles ahead of the 'plankton'/cannon fodder model. i'm just saying, if i were starting out again, i wouldn't want it any other way.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Capital gets you through the drawdowns. Also when one edge runs out, another must be acquired. All that takes capital.

.
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Times are bad huh?
 
(Man, eyes are getting tired and sore trying to keep up with all this, LOL - I called you last night Mav, I'll try again later today - let's chat a second).

We actually to agree that more starting capital is better - but my point is that a more skilled person is also better (read: younger recent grad, with great computer and some programming skills vs. someone we have to start from scratch with - no offense to anyone) - and that trading is very scalable, size wise.

Bob and I have agreed to conduct a more thorough interview process for those who, due to their youth etc. perhaps only have $10K...and, we have our JVc program participants to help with our analysis and review.

Don
 
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