Bright trading and any thoughts

[EricP]

Quote from DHOHHI:

I know you from the Daytrading thread on SI. I find it interesting that you seem to have some vendetta with Bright.

Not hardly, although I figured some would take it that way. (As with you, I trade retail and have no need for prop leverage.) I think a review of my posting history will show a mixture of support and criticism of Bright Trading and Don't posts. I have never traded with Bright Trading, nor have any personal experience with Don, outside of his ET posts.

My posting on ET is in the same interests as my posts on SI, and that is to help out and answer questions for the newbie traders. Part of this includes highlighting for newbies obvious attempts to pull the wool over their eyes, as well.

Best of luck,
-Eric

P.S. Just curious, DHOHHI, can you point to anything I've posted that appears unjustified or unwarranted? Or is it just the fact that I take the effort to clarify misrepresentations that make me appear biased to some?

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from EricP:


Part of this includes highlighting for newbies obvious attempts to pull the wool over their eyes, as well.

Best of luck,
-Eric

That could be pretty much a full time job, and I welcome any positive suggestions and/or corrections, but in all honesty, I think that there is a lot more "stuff" out here than you'll ever see from me.

All the best,

Don

 

[monstercat]

to be fair don has set himself up by saying many a time there rates are as good as echo and other firms which is not true.many guys on here with echo doing high vol are in the .002 area. don correct me if i'm wrong but i've never heard you say you're even near the .002 area. on the other side don's guys are smart and many know the rates out there yet they stay so don must be providing something of value. now for an eric who says he does 30 mil a month vol even a .002 difference in rates is massive to the tune of 60k a month so he could never function at a bright as his most important consideration is rates.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from monstercat:

to be fair don has set himself up by saying many a time there rates are as good as echo and other firms which is not true.many guys on here with echo doing high vol are in the .002 area. don correct me if i'm wrong but i've never heard you say you're even near the .002 area. on the other side don's guys are smart and many know the rates out there yet they stay so don must be providing something of value. now for an eric who says he does 30 mil a month vol even a .002 difference in rates is massive to the tune of 60k a month so he could never function at a bright as his most important consideration is rates.

Well, we are set up for the other 99.9999% of traders who don't trade 30 million shares per month, LOL. I personally pay more than .002, FWIW.

I've had people come from Echo in the last 3 months who were very happy with the savings. Some were paying as high as .008. Not big volume guys of course, but nonetheless.

Anyway, no need for hosilities, traders, new and old, should all simply do their due diligence, not a big deal. It's not like there are a 100 firms...the same 3 names keep popping up here on these threads. And, for you "old timers" ...if it wasn't for Echo, I would never have gotten on ET in the first place. But, I must say, I've enjoyed it here, and it has helped a lot with my magazine articles and former radio shows, etc.

All the best,

Don

 

[vikana]

Quote from monstercat:

to be fair don has set himself up by saying many a time there rates are as good as echo and other firms which is not true. .... now for an eric who says he does 30 mil a month vol even a .002 difference in rates is massive to the tune of 60k a month so he could never function at a bright as his most important consideration is rates.

EricP has previously pointed out that he's saving $200k/month over Brights published rates. $200k here and $200k there, and before you know it, it adds up to REAL money (in his pocket)!

I read EricP's posts like this: He's been very good at pointing out mis-information and documenting how high the Brights published rates are. As far as I can tell, he has no particular agenda, other that helping everyone understand the reality of trading.

Edit: I should say I have several friends at Bright and they all say it's a good firm.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from EricP:

Not hardly, although I figured some would take it that way. (As with you, I trade retail and have no need for prop leverage.) I think a review of my posting history will show a mixture of support and criticism of Bright Trading and Don't posts. I have never traded with Bright Trading, nor have any personal experience with Don, outside of his ET posts.

My posting on ET is in the same interests as my posts on SI, and that is to help out and answer questions for the newbie traders. Part of this includes highlighting for newbies obvious attempts to pull the wool over their eyes, as well.

Best of luck,
-Eric

P.S. Just curious, DHOHHI, can you point to anything I've posted that appears unjustified or unwarranted? Or is it just the fact that I take the effort to clarify misrepresentations that make me appear biased to some?

Eric,

I don't see your posting here in the same light as on SI. Maybe it's just that there we all used to post in a contributing manner and have very few squabbles. Here I see you splitting hairs. Do you honestly think Don is intentionally trying to mislead (potential) traders? I don't. He replies to posts, oftentimes posts that are attacking (not referring to yours), in a professional manner. Lots of guys throw out how much less they're paying than at Bright yet not many show any proof. Companies stay in business because they have a solid business model. You can't be everything to everybody.

You state you're trying to help newbies here. Newbies wouldn't be trading the kind of volume that the post in question discussed. Rather, newbies should oftentimes get their feet wet, probably trading retail initially. Too many wanna be traders think they need to go prop right away to get the BP they think they need. That's like a kid out of college thinking he can skip the minor leagues and step up and hit home runs off a top MLB pitcher. Same with inexperienced traders -- they often don't have a proven strategy or method but want massive BP and commissions approaching zero. More experienced traders here, who may be looking for a better deal, should have the insight and intelligence to negotiate with any firm they're interested in. And I believe experienced guys doing big volume would just pick up the phone and call Don or any other competitor if they were looking for a better deal.

The impetus of my earlier post was that I've seen you kind of call out Don more than once over what I think are not major issues. Maybe in this case he made an assumption and was wrong. But I seriously doubt he's trying to mislead anyone here. It would do his firm no good if he were to lie or mislead prospective traders. He's admitted they're not the cheapest. But again -- their longevity speaks volumes when you look at other firms on shakier financial footing. It's a balance of what a firm has to offer. Like I said earlier look at the poor guys at Tuco. Maybe they had better rates than what they'd have had at Bright but they're up a creek right now.

 

[tango29]

I knew things would come unhinged eventually. Oh well, lasted longer than I thought it would.
I looked at Echo and as far as I can tell they don't have a training program. The website mentions training, but then says they don't have formal training, so I can't compare that to what the Brights offer. I also note that Echo does charge a monthly fee to use their platform add on to automate your trading and it runs ~ $200/ month. I'm not sure what the Brights have, but I believe there is something offered through Pairco, and possibly they have Excel addons for the same purpose, not sure of the cost for either.
Again, I get the idea they do charge more, specifically when you are training and most likely low volume, but if you are in their bootcamp they do waive the desk fee for the 2-4 weeks.
In my case since I would be going from the index futures side to equities and I would like some professional training on this side of the business. As I grasp the ideas and start trading profitably I would ramp up volume and then see where commissions could go.
There have been tremendous commissions mentioned, again taken they are actual, how is the service at Echo? I get the idea from some pm's and posts in the past that the Brights are top notch with customer service, and that is a big one for me. Not much pisses me off more than sitting on hold when I have an issue that I need resolved about a trade or my money. I've been through a couple futures brokers before finally finding one that is there when I need them, and I don't need that anymore. (I'm too old and too crabby).

 

[Midas]

Most of the negative quotes I have read are; the he said she said variety.

Correct me if I am wrong but have any of the detractors on this thread actually negotiated commissions with Don to know what volume rates he offers experienced traders? It appears to me you are comparing rates the neophyte trading 100 share lots pays to experienced traders doing volume.

You are comparing apples to oranges.


It sounds like you are just taking shots based on assumption not facts.

 

[Dustin]

Quote from Midas:

You are comparing apples to oranges.


It sounds like you are just taking shots based on assumption not facts.

As a true life example, after getting shut down at Tuco I called Echo and Bright. Don's quoted rate for me was >50% over Echo's rate, so I chose the latter. (With the >1k rate at Bright it's hard to compare exactly)

I've traded with Bright in the past, he knew my volume, and the rate didn't compare. I do 2-4M/mo volume fwiw.

 

[Shreddog]

Quote from tango29:

I knew things would come unhinged eventually. Oh well, lasted longer than I thought it would.
I looked at Echo and as far as I can tell they don't have a training program. The website mentions training, but then says they don't have formal training, so I can't compare that to what the Brights offer. I also note that Echo does charge a monthly fee to use their platform add on to automate your trading and it runs ~ $200/ month. I'm not sure what the Brights have, but I believe there is something offered through Pairco, and possibly they have Excel addons for the same purpose, not sure of the cost for either.
Again, I get the idea they do charge more, specifically when you are training and most likely low volume, but if you are in their bootcamp they do waive the desk fee for the 2-4 weeks.
In my case since I would be going from the index futures side to equities and I would like some professional training on this side of the business. As I grasp the ideas and start trading profitably I would ramp up volume and then see where commissions could go.
There have been tremendous commissions mentioned, again taken they are actual, how is the service at Echo? I get the idea from some pm's and posts in the past that the Brights are top notch with customer service, and that is a big one for me. Not much pisses me off more than sitting on hold when I have an issue that I need resolved about a trade or my money. I've been through a couple futures brokers before finally finding one that is there when I need them, and I don't need that anymore. (I'm too old and too crabby).

I trade at Echo after considering Bright. So here's my comparison.

You are correct that Bright has a formal training program and Echo does not. However, you have to pay for the beginning one. $1000 for the 3 day course. More for boot camp. Continuing education is free. Even though I ended up at Echo I took the Bright 3 day course. I did not find it of value. But I was already a profitable retail trader. You may find it useful if you are a complete beginner. And there's nothing preventing you from joining another firm after taking the 3 day course.

Bright and Echo both have desk and platform fees. I suspect Redi(Bright) is a better platform than Sterling (Echo) for automated trading. For manual trading I suspect they are about the same. Costs for each platform are comparable. Add ons of course cost more at each firm.

As far as "service" I can only speak for Echo but it is top notch. Adminstrative and accounting people respond promptly. The trade support people answer the phone or IM immediately. You are treated as a professional member of the firm.

As far as rates maybe I just can't negotiate because there was no comparison. My rates at Echo are much lower than the best I could get out of Bright. There really was no "negoatiation" it was pretty much a take it or leave it offer from Bright. And Echo doesn't hold back a penny a share to rebate at the end of the month. If you are a volume trader that really adds up. Are you going to get a high volume rate at Echo as a low volume beginner? Probably not.

I don't hold overnights so I can't make a haircut comparison.

Is Bright a good firm? Of course. But the Brights have taken the Starbucks business model of premium branding, much to their credit. However, the coffee is pretty darn good across the street and doesn't cost nearly as much.

So what you are seeing is Don protecting the brand on these boards, much like you see Starbucks convincing you to pay $4 a cup for coffee. Most of the "bashers" (I personally know several of them) are just trying challenge the company line and some misleading statements that appear here from time to time. If it seems like he's being picked on, well, he's the only representative from a firm on these boards trying to sell us on his firm.

Given the SEC attack on the retail LLC's I don't expect you're going to see Bright caving in on rates anytime soon. And why would they? Once they drop they don't go back up. And apparently they have no problem finding people willing to pay them.