Thanks!
Don
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Bright trading and any thoughts
- Thread starter tango29
- Start date
Thanks!
Don
But Don, that's what man invented computers for! I mean c'mon, plug a few hundred traders into a spreadsheet, write some simple formulas and whamo, instant rebate calculations. I hear there are even programmers that will automate this kind of stuff.
Not calling it sinister, how about "a convenient inconvenience"....
Anyway, more power to ya, the more revenue streams the better.
Not calling it sinister, how about "a convenient inconvenience"....
Anyway, more power to ya, the more revenue streams the better.
I just closed out my Bright account after being with them almost a year. I did this because I am now trading E-minis exclusively instead of equities and Bright is not ideal for futures. Also, because of the the leverage inherent in futures, I no longer require the large pools of Bright capital.
I have found Bright to be honest and straight forward. I have posted about them in the past so I won't go into too much detail. However, one thing I would have liked to see handled differently is the use of simulators.
I attended the 3 day course and the boot camp (4 weeks) and every time the subject of simulators came up, Don made it clear (in no uncertain terms) that he opposed them.
I know that traders have strong opinions on them and I am not here to debate their usefulness. What I am saying is that for new traders who are not accustomed to large amounts of leverage as offered by Bright (a major advantage for an experienced trader who knows what to do with it), a simulator like Ninjatrader, permits them to learn how to manage risk and learn their specific trading methodologies without losing a penny. I think if simulators were used, the burnout rate would be decreased dramatically.
Sincerely,
Daryl
I have found Bright to be honest and straight forward. I have posted about them in the past so I won't go into too much detail. However, one thing I would have liked to see handled differently is the use of simulators.
I attended the 3 day course and the boot camp (4 weeks) and every time the subject of simulators came up, Don made it clear (in no uncertain terms) that he opposed them.
I know that traders have strong opinions on them and I am not here to debate their usefulness. What I am saying is that for new traders who are not accustomed to large amounts of leverage as offered by Bright (a major advantage for an experienced trader who knows what to do with it), a simulator like Ninjatrader, permits them to learn how to manage risk and learn their specific trading methodologies without losing a penny. I think if simulators were used, the burnout rate would be decreased dramatically.
Sincerely,
Daryl
Wow, that was super clear, hehe.Quote from Don Bright:
Valid question. We have hundreds of traders on literally a hundred different pricing plans. Goldman will only bill us one rate, and we have to do all the individual calculations to determine proper rebate amounts for each person. It obviously has to be the highest number or it won't work. Nothing sinister on our part, just a big headache for us, accounting wise.
Come on Don. Redi probably has a provision for back-office calcs like that. Even excel would easily be able to input daily share volume and calc true equity based on whatever the indiv deal was. What you're talking about is a no-brainer... remeber it's the year 2k, no more "running paper".
The only reason to rebate is to make short-term intereset, which on the volume Bright does, I would imagine would not be insignificant. No, it's not sinister, it's part of your business and obviously part of the deal, but can start sounding sinister when you don't put it on the table and call it what it is.
Lesocr isn't concerned about being bothered or about YOUR risk, he's concerned about his non-rebated "artificially" high haricut, which was not clear if you charge or not. So, do you calculate rebate adjustments into account equity for haircuts or not?
We understand your point about mid month account balance, etc. And, we calculate rebates when concerned about risk and amount of capital usage. If an account is flat, we check rebate amounts and account for them before we bother the trader. We are very clear with our traders on how this all works, and have only a few that it concerns from time to time.
Quote from drumbandit:
That's not entirely accurate. It depends on the number of shares you traded and the distribution of shares. If you averaged 944.25 shares/trade last year you would've been trading at least 1000 shares on some trades and would get charged .004/share.
Let's say you traded exactly 70% of the time using 1000 shares and 30% of the time using 800. Average is 940 shares/trade. The average commission would be .7*.004+.3*.01 = .0058, hardly double IB's bundled rate.
Of course you could swing the other way and trade mostly under 1000 but then you would need to trade much more than 1000 on some trades to average 940. That doesn't make sense from a risk management standpoint unless you had some very high probability trades.
The rate only drops to .004 for shares above 1,000 shares. So an order for 1,500 would be charge .01 on the first 1,000 shares of the order ($10), and .004 on 500 shares of the order ($2). So the order will cost you a total of $12 for 1,500 shares which comes out to a rate of .008. But if you take liquidity then the rate is .011.
Quote from UDon'tKnowMe:
The rate only drops to .004 for shares above 1,000 shares. So an order for 1,500 would be charge .01 on the first 1,000 shares of the order ($10), and .004 on 500 shares of the order ($2). So the order will cost you a total of $12 for 1,500 shares which comes out to a rate of .008. But if you take liquidity then the rate is .011.
I can't believe there are people willing to pay this much. I have nothing against Dob Bright, he runs a good business. Little like mafia, they will take care of you, he is really nice to the community, but behind everyones back he rapes your daughter.
I make about 300$ a day on 30k shares, at my company i get full rebates, and pay about 3$ in commision. At Bright I would pay 300$. and no rebates? I would rather take my 30% then 100% anyday. You are a fool to think otherwise.
According to Don's rates upto 1000 shares, is it $10 bucks roundtrip? Or is it $20 roundtrip?
there's no other way to say it. brights rates are nothing short of robbery. i looked at trading at bright in 2001 and there rates were the exact same. .007 for the first 1000 and .004 for every share over 1k.in reality the rate is .007 for most traders as 80% of traders trade in blocks of less than 1k. 7 YEARS LATER AS OTHER COMPANIES SLASHED RATES 50-75% BRIGHT KEP THERES THE SAME.there's no way in hell bright's clearing cost haven't fallen huge since 2001. don's denied many times the rates that are out there. i'm retail and have never needed nor wanted any persons leverage. i've negotiated rates that few would believe.i'm saving 30k amonth easy over what i'd pay at bright. thats 360k a year. 5 years of that and you're at $1.8 million in saving which is 7 mil of buying power. do the math and advise all to shop the shit out of rates and companies and find a balance
Quote from monstercat:
there's no other way to say it. brights rates are nothing short of robbery. i looked at trading at bright in 2001 and there rates were the exact same. .007 for the first 1000 and .004 for every share over 1k.in reality the rate is .007 for most traders as 80% of traders trade in blocks of less than 1k. 7 YEARS LATER AS OTHER COMPANIES SLASHED RATES 50-75% BRIGHT KEP THERES THE SAME.there's no way in hell bright's clearing cost haven't fallen huge since 2001. don's denied many times the rates that are out there. i'm retail and have never needed nor wanted any persons leverage. i've negotiated rates that few would believe.i'm saving 30k amonth easy over what i'd pay at bright. thats 360k a year. 5 years of that and you're at $1.8 million in saving which is 7 mil of buying power. do the math and advise all to shop the shit out of rates and companies and find a balance
After the shit hits the fan, again, look around and see who's standing. Price, Quality, Service. Pick two. You don't get all three.
Quote from flytiger:
After the shit hits the fan, again, look around and see who's standing. Price, Quality, Service. Pick two. You don't get all three.
No, I think you can get all three if you are a successful, experienced trader, and look hard. Similar to monstercat's point, I am saving over 200k per month versus those rates at Bright. It doesn't take a lot of thought to decide whether it's worthwhile to keep that additional cash on MY balance sheet, versus theirs.
However, I agree with others that Bright appears to be a 'stand up' firm and Don has been very helpful to newbies on this site, as well. With their training program teaching some elementary techniques to those new to the industry, they might be an excellent fit for a trader starting out.
I also think we've got to assume that they offer more realistic rates to experienced traders or they couldn't stay in business. That said, they run a decent firm with many benefits to a trader, and the trader knows the terms of their deal (excessive or otherwise) before they start trading. I can't feel sorry for anyone at any firm getting screwed by paying excessive rates; they are trading with their eyes open and are free to look for a more competitive deal at any time. It's a free market, and if a firm can find traders willing to pay an elevated rate (for a perceived benefit or otherwise), then more power to them.