BREXIT

[endicottsteel]

What millions in the EU do mind, however, is that the UK has held the EU hostage in order to gain special treatment and concessions for decades. Truth of the matter is you are not any more special that France or Germany or Poland. Not one inch more special. And now as you left you again hold everyone hostage. Like signing and filling out a divorce paper and waving it constantly in front of your spouse and threatening to file it if your spouse does not do this or that. At some point your spouse will say "make up your mind, shit head, but I don't take your bully crap anymore".

I do agree that the Brits are likely coming across to many people in the EU as holding them hostage. It has been a turbulent relationship with the EU. We have been through the denial stage for a long time, now the decision has been made we are now in the anger phase. Many people in the UK are still clinging to the denial phase but this is mostly now confined to rich kids living in the london bubble. Once this anger has calmed down, like a divorcing couple we will likely come to an amicable settlement.

This is going to be shocking for some but personally I do believe the UK & Germany are 'more special' as you put it, than the other countries in Europe. I believe both the UK & Germany are the most powerful economic forces in Europe, our people are the most hard working, most intelligent, most progressive in Europe.

We are an island nation of free thinking people and we don't like being dictated to. That is very clear. It's also clear that this EU project and its ever increasing integration is being sold to EU citizens as a peace in Europe deal and they have bought it. What is actually happening is wealth and power transfer by stealth. Ask yourself who is actually in control of the mediterranean countries? These countries are being told when they can or cannot have elections, how to spend their own money lol. Ask yourself who the real winners and real losers of the EU are?

Most of the EU is still firmly in the denial stage, we are only just getting started on the anger stage. I can see the UK getting pinned with the blame for ending this trainwreck when Germany has sucked all the rest of your dry and cast you off.

Many members of my family past currently rest in war graves in France. They gave their lives to fight off a dictator. They safely delivered our British sovereignty on to my parents and they paid for it. For me voting leave EU was a very simple matter of making the choice to pass on British sovereignty safely to my children and future grandchildren. Forget all the trade deals and regulatory passporting BS, that is a sideshow.

carry on.

 

[conduit]

If we want to tackle the most pressing problems of our times then we need to start to isolate the real problems. The real problem in most Western societies is that only a tiny minority experienced wealth increases and improvement in living standards. Most others did not partake in the promised globalization goodies.

May I suggest that like in Germany, and France, Spain, the real problem is not Europe or the European Union, it's not a lack of democracy but it is unfair regulations, unfair tax treatments, tax loopholes, focus on big corporates vs supporting startups and small and midsized businesses.

The problems lie withing our institutions not the existence of such. To solve problems we need to overhaul the institutions not isolate ourselves from them.

May I suggest this Brexit will not solve the problems of those Brits who are currently dissatisfied with their lives. Nor would an exit of Germany or France solve the issues of disenfranchised people in those countries. The problems are much deeper and more complex.

In that Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson pained rosy pictures and mislead people in that life will get better with the UK outside of Europe. I am absolutely convinced that it won't improve the mood, living standard, income, efficiency, of any average Brit.

I do agree that the Brits are likely coming across to many people in the EU as holding them hostage. It has been a turbulent relationship with the EU. We have been through the denial stage for a long time, now the decision has been made we are now in the anger phase. Many people in the UK are still clinging to the denial phase but this is mostly now confined to rich kids living in the london bubble. Once this anger has calmed down, like a divorcing couple we will likely come to an amicable settlement.

This is going to be shocking for some but personally I do believe the UK & Germany are 'more special' as you put it, than the other countries in Europe. I believe both the UK & Germany are the most powerful economic forces in Europe, our people are the most hard working, most intelligent, most progressive in Europe.

We are an island nation of free thinking people and we don't like being dictated to. That is very clear. It's also clear that this EU project and its ever increasing integration is being sold to EU citizens as a peace in Europe deal and they have bought it. What is actually happening is wealth and power transfer by stealth. Ask yourself who is actually in control of the mediterranean countries? These countries are being told when they can or cannot have elections, how to spend their own money lol. Ask yourself who the real winners and real losers of the EU are?

Most of the EU is still firmly in the denial stage, we are only just getting started on the anger stage. I can see the UK getting pinned with the blame for ending this trainwreck when Germany has sucked all the rest of your dry and cast you off.

Many members of my family past currently rest in war graves in France. They gave their lives to fight off a dictator. They safely delivered our British sovereignty on to my parents and they paid for it. For me voting leave EU was a very simple matter of making the choice to pass on British sovereignty safely to my children and future grandchildren. Forget all the trade deals and regulatory passporting BS, that is a sideshow.

carry on.

 

[endicottsteel]

Mate, I mentioned the loss of passporting rights in a very early post of mine in this thread.

Then with euro clearing moving to Europe should UK exit the EU most trading in euro denominated assets and derivatives will follow.

Can you get real for just a moment and be honest?


http://internal.uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN0ZE1YL

A fear based argument of regulation, red tape, trade tariff argument will never work and wont hold. London IS the financial capital of the world, has been for a long time, still is and will be for a very long time.

Let me dispel this passport guff argument. The lefties cry 'oh but new financial companies will choose to start up outside of the EU so they have passporting rights into the rest of the EU'. If you think for one moment that financial firms headquartered in London will not be able to operate in the EU the you are very naive sir. Do you honestly believe the city of london is going to shut down and all the business transfer to paris and frankfurt lol. What do you think would happen if the EU announced the British regulatory standard was not good enough for the rest of Europe? What would the rest of the world think. They would probably think, hmm well it was good enough for hundreds of years so what has changed now? Ultimately the uk could use it's bazooka and give large incentives to financial firms to stay. It would never come to that of course and Germany & UK would come to an arrangement that the rest of the EU would be made to agree to.

And of course you say all of this like it's the EU's decision. In reality, let's stop pretending, it really is the German people who will decide. It doesn't matter what you say in the EU parliament, it doesn't matter how you vote, when Merkel speaks and tells you to get in line you will do just that.

 

[conduit]

Now it's the financial capital of the world not Europe? Wow, I hope your image won't break in the same way as the tower of Babel.

You do not really seem to understand what passporting right means. It is not about what anyone feels or things. In the future European citizens cannot be solicited nor can their money be managed in a retirement/pension fund that is managed out of London without clearance from European regulators. Gold, silver cash, or ownership certificates stored and invested in Germany or France and the laws that protect ownership and rights of investors have been as safe if not even safer in Germany, France, or Italy for centuries than the UK. Hence there is no perception issues that would surface. It comes down to hard, cold regulations and approval/permissioning.

If we can remove all the rhetoric and banter for a moment then things become actually quite clear and understandable.

A fear based argument of regulation, red tape, trade tariff argument will never work and wont hold. London IS the financial capital of the world, has been for a long time, still is and will be for a very long time.

Let me dispel this passport guff argument. The lefties cry 'oh but new financial companies will choose to start up outside of the EU so they have passporting rights into the rest of the EU'. If you think for one moment that financial firms headquartered in London will not be able to operate in the EU the you are very naive sir. Do you honestly believe the city of london is going to shut down and all the business transfer to paris and frankfurt lol. What do you think would happen if the EU announced the British regulatory standard was not good enough for the rest of Europe? What would the rest of the world think. They would probably think, hmm well it was good enough for hundreds of years so what has changed now? Ultimately the uk could use it's bazooka and give large incentives to financial firms to stay. It would never come to that of course and Germany & UK would come to an arrangement that the rest of the EU would be made to agree to.

And of course you say all of this like it's the EU's decision. In reality, let's stop pretending, it really is the German people who will decide. It doesn't matter what you say in the EU parliament, it doesn't matter how you vote, when Merkel speaks and tells you to get in line you will do just that.

 

[endicottsteel]

If we want to tackle the most pressing problems of our times then we need to start to isolate the real problems. The real problem in most Western societies is that only a tiny minority experienced wealth increases and improvement in living standards. Most others did not partake in the promised globalization goodies.

May I suggest that like in Germany, and France, Spain, the real problem is not Europe or the European Union, it's not a lack of democracy but it is unfair regulations, unfair tax treatments, tax loopholes, focus on big corporates vs supporting startups and small and midsized businesses.

The problems lie withing our institutions not the existence of such. To solve problems we need to overhaul the institutions not isolate ourselves from them.

May I suggest this Brexit will not solve the problems of those Brits who are currently dissatisfied with their lives. Nor would an exit of Germany or France solve the issues of disenfranchised people in those countries. The problems are much deeper and more complex.

In that Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson pained rosy pictures and mislead people in that life will get better with the UK outside of Europe. I am absolutely convinced that it won't improve the mood, living standard, income, efficiency, of any average Brit.

conduit, a huge change in tone from you gratefully received and noted. You have highlighted the problem of a growing divide between the richest and poorest, this is something we can agree on. This problem is widespread in nearly all countries rich and poor.

you are absolutely correct Brexit will NOT solve the problems of those Brits who are currently dissatisfied with their lives. The first step though in fixing something is putting yourself in full control of it and taking full responsibility.

 

[conduit]

Re Merkel that is nonsense. Decisions on a European level are made by majority vote in each European body. The seats are distributed on average by number of citizens in each country. Pretty fair if you ask me. If others follow Merkels arguments then it is because she convinced them. How? With reason and logic. After all a pretty fair case can be made that Merkel is one of the most educated, wisest, and fairest stateswoman in the world in the past 50 years among any country leaders. When she pressed Greece it was not to bully Greece but to demand a sticking to agreements and contracts. When she opened borders to refugees then it was in response to a huge crisis in Syria. How she went about it can be debated. And I believe her biggest mistake ever was to not sufficiently consult with other member states before she opened Germany's border. She should have known that this will affect many other countries. I believe she made a big mistake there. But most everything else iny opinion is a reflection of her incredibly intelligent handling of her responsibilities and she always supported fair play and honesty. Margaret Thatcher in contrast was the living devil and Satan.

A fear based argument of regulation, red tape, trade tariff argument will never work and wont hold. London IS the financial capital of the world, has been for a long time, still is and will be for a very long time.

Let me dispel this passport guff argument. The lefties cry 'oh but new financial companies will choose to start up outside of the EU so they have passporting rights into the rest of the EU'. If you think for one moment that financial firms headquartered in London will not be able to operate in the EU the you are very naive sir. Do you honestly believe the city of london is going to shut down and all the business transfer to paris and frankfurt lol. What do you think would happen if the EU announced the British regulatory standard was not good enough for the rest of Europe? What would the rest of the world think. They would probably think, hmm well it was good enough for hundreds of years so what has changed now? Ultimately the uk could use it's bazooka and give large incentives to financial firms to stay. It would never come to that of course and Germany & UK would come to an arrangement that the rest of the EU would be made to agree to.

And of course you say all of this like it's the EU's decision. In reality, let's stop pretending, it really is the German people who will decide. It doesn't matter what you say in the EU parliament, it doesn't matter how you vote, when Merkel speaks and tells you to get in line you will do just that.

 

[conduit]

Fair and I do believe among all European members Germans and Brits probably share the most similar traits and characteristics. Big difference is the UK is an island and Germany lies in the middle of a continent that has forever been highly volatile and shaken up. For Germans it's been about peace and making up for past transgressions since WW2 and for British it's about small government and self determination. Aside that we share lots of similarities and values

conduit, a huge change in tone from you gratefully received and noted. You have highlighted the problem of a growing divide between the richest and poorest, this is something we can agree on. This problem is widespread in nearly all countries rich and poor.

you are absolutely correct Brexit will NOT solve the problems of those Brits who are currently dissatisfied with their lives. The first step though in fixing something is putting yourself in full control of it and taking full responsibility.

 

[endicottsteel]

Now it's the financial capital of the world not Europe? Wow, I hope your image won't break in the same way as the tower of Babel.

You do not really seem to understand what passporting right means. It is not about what anyone feels or things. In the future European citizens cannot be solicited nor can their money be managed in a retirement/pension fund that is managed out of London without clearance from European regulators. Gold, silver cash, or ownership certificates stored and invested in Germany or France and the laws that protect ownership and rights of investors have been as safe if not even safer in Germany, France, or Italy for centuries than the UK. Hence there is no perception issues that would surface. It comes down to hard, cold regulations and approval/permissioning.

If we can remove all the rhetoric and banter for a moment then things become actually quite clear and understandable.

Sorry but London IS the financial capital of the world. That is universally accepted amongst bankers and after all it is their playground. NYC is a close second. Where do you suppose the world's financial centre is? frankfurt, paris?, tokyo. This isn't my opinion conduit.

I only wish I didn't understand what passporting right meant. I own and operate a FCA regulated firm here in UK so sadly I know all about it. Put simply the rest of the EU will have to cooperate with the UK with regards to regulatory matters. We have way too much bargaining power. We could almost get away with a straight deal with Germany.

 

[endicottsteel]

Gold, silver cash, or ownership certificates stored and invested in Germany or France and the laws that protect ownership and rights of investors have been as safe if not even safer in Germany, France, or Italy for centuries than the UK.

lol. Many people would disagree with you that their gold has been safer in Germany for centuries compared to UK. Germany has been the worst debt defaulter in world in the last century.

The bulk of gold trading is OTC Physical Bullion and the London market is by far the world's largest and most influential.

Let me guess, now we are are leaving the EU, this will all be moved to frankfurt, brussels or paris. not happening ever.

 

[conduit]

London is a distant second to NYC other than currency markets and even there some currencies are traded in higher volume in NYC than London.

Re bargaining power I could not disagree more with you. Let's agree to disagree. When the Ecb decides that clearing of euro denominated contracts will move away from the UK then that is nothing anyone in the UK could do anything whatsoever about it.

Sorry but London IS the financial capital of the world. That is universally accepted amongst bankers and after all it is their playground. NYC is a close second. Where do you suppose the world's financial centre is? frankfurt, paris?, tokyo. This isn't my opinion conduit.

I only wish I didn't understand what passporting right meant. I own and operate a FCA regulated firm here in UK so sadly I know all about it. Put simply the rest of the EU will have to cooperate with the UK with regards to regulatory matters. We have way too much bargaining power. We could almost get away with a straight deal with Germany.