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Breaking the Silence short documentary
- Thread starter sameeh55
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Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah
http://www.islam-watch.org/Warner/Taqiyya-Islamic-Principle-Lying-for-Allah.htm
Learn a bit more about their world view.
The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.â It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims.
Islamic spokesmen commonly use taqiyya as a form of 'outwitting'. The skilled taqiyya-tactician doesnât want the matter at hand to be debated or discussed; so his opponent must be outwitted or preemptively outflanked by the use of taqiyya. The objective is to divert attention away from the subject through duplicity and obfuscation.
http://www.islam-watch.org/Warner/Taqiyya-Islamic-Principle-Lying-for-Allah.htm
Learn a bit more about their world view.
The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.â It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims.
Islamic spokesmen commonly use taqiyya as a form of 'outwitting'. The skilled taqiyya-tactician doesnât want the matter at hand to be debated or discussed; so his opponent must be outwitted or preemptively outflanked by the use of taqiyya. The objective is to divert attention away from the subject through duplicity and obfuscation.
Quote from Hello:
I strongly disagree with this statement, often times i was a minority in the area i grew up, and with the friends i grew up with. They would have no reason to lie to me, unless the whole group, and all their parents were colluding to try to appear more westernised, which i highly doubt.
It is the total opposite, they are becoming more moderate in general in western cultures in my opinion. There are very few second or third generation muslims living in Canada or the U.S. who want to practice sharia law for example, less than 1% probably. However at the same time they are becoming more extreme in the middle east, and somewhat justifiably so, if you lived in Iraq or Afghanistan, and your house is bombed by mistake and you lose your whole family, do you really think you are going to understand, or be sentimental towards the people who are currently killing your family and neighbours? Even if the war may be justified? I doubt it.
In order for me to bye into this argument, i would have to assume i am the worst judge of character in history. I have been to muslim weddings, muslim funerals, I dated a muslim girl for 3 months, and when i was kicked out of my parents house in highschool, my muslim friends parents took me in for a couple months. Western muslims have always welcomed me with open arms.
In order for what you are saying to be true, i would either have to be the worst judge of character in history, or there would have to have been some giant facade going on behind my back. Both are highly unlikely so what you are saying is not accurate.
In order for what you are saying to be true, i would either have to be the worst judge of character in history, or there would have to have been some giant facade going on behind my back. Both are highly unlikely so what you are saying is not accurate.
Quote from phenomena:
Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah
http://www.islam-watch.org/Warner/Taqiyya-Islamic-Principle-Lying-for-Allah.htm
Learn a bit more about their world view.
The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.â It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims.
Islamic spokesmen commonly use taqiyya as a form of 'outwitting'. The skilled taqiyya-tactician doesnât want the matter at hand to be debated or discussed; so his opponent must be outwitted or preemptively outflanked by the use of taqiyya. The objective is to divert attention away from the subject through duplicity and obfuscation.
You seem to think I'm saying it applies to all muslims, or that all muslims practice it universally. I'm not making that assertion. I'm simply saying that it does occur. Further, it's not *ME* saying it. There are muslim religious leaders who say the same thing... I'm only repeating it.
Quote from Hello:
In order for me to bye into this argument, i would have to assume i am the worst judge of character in history. I have been to muslim weddings, muslim funerals, I dated a muslim girl for 3 months, and when i was kicked out of my parents house in highschool, my muslim friends parents took me in for a couple months. Western muslims have always welcomed me with open arms.
In order for what you are saying to be true, i would either have to be the worst judge of character in history, or there would have to have been some giant facade going on behind my back. Both are highly unlikely so what you are saying is not accurate.
Well that would certainly be what your response to my other post implied, where you responded to my comment that western muslims are overwhelmingly good people by posting the following link "Understanding Taqiyya ¯ Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah."
I am by no means making an argument for the average middle eastern, or fundamentalist muslim, infact i have been very clear in making my distinction between the two. As far as im concerned the world would be better off if every single one of these middle eastern/fundamentalist muslim whackos was eliminated. I was just pointing out that there is a very clear difference between the average muslim in the western world, and the average muslim living in afghanistan. Sure there is a few psychos/fundamentalists living in the west, but they are vastly outnumbered by good moderate muslims who are overwhelmingly nice people.
I am by no means making an argument for the average middle eastern, or fundamentalist muslim, infact i have been very clear in making my distinction between the two. As far as im concerned the world would be better off if every single one of these middle eastern/fundamentalist muslim whackos was eliminated. I was just pointing out that there is a very clear difference between the average muslim in the western world, and the average muslim living in afghanistan. Sure there is a few psychos/fundamentalists living in the west, but they are vastly outnumbered by good moderate muslims who are overwhelmingly nice people.
Quote from phenomena:
You seem to think I'm saying it applies to all muslims, or that all muslims practice it universally. I'm not making that assertion. I'm simply saying that it does occur. Further, it's not *ME* saying it. There are muslim religious leaders who say the same thing... I'm only repeating it.
I'm just saying that there are wahabists and/or deeply anti-western muslims, etc masquerading as assimilated ''moderate'' muslims in the west. Many muslim youths from moderate families, often radicalize and "discover" or "realize" how evil or wicked the west is as well, usually spurred on by learning how "evil" we are while in university. And of course, everyone, moderate or otherwise, almost always has some sense of group identity... Anyways I've never said this describes every western muslim, i'm just saying it's out there... Geography doesn't always denote world view...
Quote from Hello:
Well that would certainly be what your response to my other post implied, where you responded to my comment that western muslims are overwhelmingly good people by posting the following link "Understanding Taqiyya ¯ Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah."
I am by no means making an argument for the average middle eastern, or fundamentalist muslim, infact i have been very clear in making my distinction between the two. As far as im concerned the world would be better off if every single one of these middle eastern/fundamentalist whackos was eliminated. I was just pointing out that there is a very clear difference between the average muslim in the western world, and the average muslim living in afghanistan. Sure there is a few psychos/fundamentalists living in the west, but they are vastly outnumbered by good moderate muslims who are overwhelmingly nice people.
Quote from phenomena:
I'm just saying that there are wahabists and/or deeply anti-western muslims, etc masquerading as assimilated ''moderate'' muslims in the west.
Yes there are people like this in existence, but there are also serial killers living in our midst who masquerade as normal human beings. It doesnt mean that the average human being is a serial killer.
Quote from phenomena:
Many muslim youths, from assimilated families, often radicalize and "discover" or "realize" how evil or wicked the west is as well, usually spurred on by learning how "evil" we are while in university.
I disagree that this happens often as you have said. Infact it happens very rarely. How many muslims live in America? How many muslims do you hear of going on mass murdering rampages in the united states?
It happens, but it happens in disproportionately low numbers, when compared to the overall U.S. population of muslims.
So would i rather conclude that 99% of muslims are good based on the fact that 99% of them dont commit terrorist acts in the country, or would i rather assume the majority are bad based on the fact that only about 1% (probably less) in the western world commit terrorist acts?
Quote from phenomena:
And of course, everyone, moderate or otherwise, almost always has some sense of group identity...
I agree with this statement.
The big battle between the moderates and fanatics is happening right in Afghanistan, which is why we are pouring money into the country. There are muslims there building schools and opening shops, and the taliban is tearing them down, and the moderates are putting them back up at great risk. Yet, they persist. It's still uncertain how it's going to go, but if the world can get afghani and pakistani farmers off of poppies and onto something else lucrative, thereby starving out the taliban, who are, if there really is such a thing, truly evil, then there's hope.
Sure, but it's more the general world view/outlook than who commits mass murders. I mean, even over in stone-age muslim lands only 1% probably go on killing rampages, or are suicide bombers, or engage in some such behavior. It's more a matter of world view... Perhaps it would have been better phrased "when radicalization of moderates happen, it often happens like xyz, etc". Either way, my original statement was about their views, rather than their actions, and that many,(not all, or even most ) feign more moderate and pro-west views than they actually have so as to be more socially accepted. Many of their leaders also tell them that this is acceptable. As far as group identity, we are a part of a civilization which is ideologically and physically at war with theirs, and has been numerous times in the past... That's who they (rightfully) identify with, it's who they are. That means something, if not a great deal, to most people...
Quote from Hello:
Yes there are people like this in existence, but there are also serial killers living in our midst who masquerade as normal human beings. It doesnt mean that the average human being is a serial killer.
I disagree that this happens often as you have said. Infact it happens very rarely. How many muslims live in America? How many muslims do you hear of going on mass murdering rampages in the united states?
It happens, but it happens in disproportionately low numbers, when compared to the overall U.S. population of muslims.
So would i rather conclude that 99% of muslims are good based on the fact that 99% of them dont commit terrorist acts in the country, or would i rather assume the majority are bad based on the fact that only about 1% (probably less) in the western world commit terrorist acts?
I agree with this statement.
One problem that exists in this whole thing is that the general population in the countries these fanaticals are going to have nothing. For once i actually believe poverty is a strong part of the problem.
If we eliminate the lunatics in Afghanistan, they will simply move to some other piss poor country and take over.
If i hand a gun and some food to a guy who is starving to death, he is likely to take up arms for my cause, because he will starve if he doesnt.
I think the biggest obstacle facing this whole problem is that moderate muslims wont wholly denounce these whackos, out of fear for their own life. I think once there is a cultural shift, and enough of the ring leaders have died, it will be all over for these fundamentalists, and the entire fundamentalist muslim regime.
If we eliminate the lunatics in Afghanistan, they will simply move to some other piss poor country and take over.
If i hand a gun and some food to a guy who is starving to death, he is likely to take up arms for my cause, because he will starve if he doesnt.
I think the biggest obstacle facing this whole problem is that moderate muslims wont wholly denounce these whackos, out of fear for their own life. I think once there is a cultural shift, and enough of the ring leaders have died, it will be all over for these fundamentalists, and the entire fundamentalist muslim regime.
Quote from Ricter:
The big battle between the moderates and fanatics is happening right in Afghanistan, which is why we are pouring money into the country. There are muslims there building schools and opening shops, and the taliban is tearing them down, and the moderates are putting them back up at great risk. Yet, they persist. It's still uncertain how it's going to go, but if the world can get afghani and pakistani farmers off of poppies and onto something else lucrative, thereby starving out the taliban, who are, if there really is such a thing, truly evil, then there's hope.