Somewhat successful. I know Roy rather well, his fund didn't do so well for the last 2 years or so.
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Breaking news: Niederhoffer still in business after market correction!
- Thread starter just21
- Start date
Somewhat successful. I know Roy rather well, his fund didn't do so well for the last 2 years or so.
From this...
to this:
Thanks for the laugh Vic.
Quantum's multi-billion-dollar score in the British Pound? PTJ's 200% returns in the '87 crash and again in the Nikkei crash, not to mention two decades without a down year? That's nothing compared to you baby. Just 'cause the real hedge fund greats could buy and sell you ten times over--correction, make that thirty or forty times over... no wait, make it a HUNDRED times over--doesn't mean they have class, right? After all, they probably don't listen to showboat tunes in the office. And I bet they wear shoes.
The guy is pathologically delusional. We're talking clinical condition here. I wouldn't hold his past against him as much if he were willing to show some sort of rational assessment capability... but articles like this show he is more out to lunch than ever.
Quote from just21:
Niederhoffer said that he has emerged from the ashes a changed man. His failure has taught him humility, he said.
to this:
Quote from just21:
"The ridiculous thing, in all candor, is that I think I've had the greatest run of success in the history of speculation," Niederhoffer said.
Thanks for the laugh Vic.
Quantum's multi-billion-dollar score in the British Pound? PTJ's 200% returns in the '87 crash and again in the Nikkei crash, not to mention two decades without a down year? That's nothing compared to you baby. Just 'cause the real hedge fund greats could buy and sell you ten times over--correction, make that thirty or forty times over... no wait, make it a HUNDRED times over--doesn't mean they have class, right? After all, they probably don't listen to showboat tunes in the office. And I bet they wear shoes.
The guy is pathologically delusional. We're talking clinical condition here. I wouldn't hold his past against him as much if he were willing to show some sort of rational assessment capability... but articles like this show he is more out to lunch than ever.
Quote from archimedes:
From this...
to this:
Thanks for the laugh Vic.
Quantum's multi-billion-dollar score in the British Pound? PTJ's 200% returns in the '87 crash and again in the Nikkei crash, not to mention two decades without a down year? That's nothing compared to you baby. Just 'cause the real hedge fund greats could buy and .......(edit)
no other manager has ever been ranked top dog, lost it all, and then rose to top rankings again.
niederhoffer has experienced far greater than 200% returns in his career. as you know, he was soros' top trader, so what are you talking about??
surfer
Quote from marketsurfer:
no other manager has ever been ranked top dog, lost it all, and then rose to top rankings again.
niederhoffer has experienced far greater than 200% returns in his career. as you know, he was soros' top trader, so what are you talking about??
surfer
It's about absolute dollar returns. The 200% number is relevant in PTJs case because he did it with a huge sum of money, and then he did it again a short time later, and he kept every penny. Huge returns are all the more notable in the context of a strategy that does not lose money. It's easy to make huge returns by being a pig and getting lucky, as VN did. Any drunk can do that at a casino. To make huge returns through the application of skill and vision, while keeping a very tight handle on risk the whole time... now THAT is true trading greatness. Something VN knows little about.
Vic is nowhere near the top. He's not even on the list. The cutoff for getting on the big dog list last year was something like $130 million--more than double Vic's net worth--and that's just one year's payout. If the true greats in your industry quite literally have 100 times more personal wealth than you do, it's hard to call yourself great.
Oh, and going back to absolute returns. Guys like PTJ and Soros and Kovner have collectively taken tens of billions of dollars out of the markets over the past few decades. That is serious money won. Niederhoffer's collective winnings, when you tally wins and losses, are probably still below zero.
Niederhoffer is an interesting guy with an interesting story. But he is not within a football field's distance of great, not by any means. Nor is his performance meaningful when his total block of assets under management is less than the personal payout for a single top five player. He is small fry.
Nothing wrong with being small fry, but when you go around telling people you're the greatest, and in actuality you aren't even a contender, there is something wrong with your head.
Vic suffers from pathological delusion. I'm serious. I think there is something wrong with his wiring.
And you have a deeper well of weirdly blind devotion than some Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses I've come across.
p.s. isn't it odd, methinks, that the true greats are self-effacing almost to a man. PTJ has gone out of the way to talk about how ephemeral success can be, how much hard work it takes, even though he has been at the top of the game for decades. When asked what he wants to be remembered for, Jones happily replied, "No one will remember me." Jim Simons readily admits that a good portion of his success was due to getting lucky in the initial search for algorithms. Soros goes on and on about how fallible he is. Other greats have similar humble streaks mixed in with their strong convictions. I doubt a guy like PTJ would be caught dead saying something like "I've had the most successful run of all time," even though he could make a case for it. Meanwhile, this delusional piker VN happily says it right after declaring his newfound humility, even though he is playing with peanuts in the big scheme of things. Coincidence? I think not.
I read Soros's book and he implied VN was a gambler and essentially a douche bag who is prone to blow out. Jimmey Rogers was more likely Soros's top trader.
Excuse me while I return to my glass of blended scotch. SCOTCH IT OUT!
Excuse me while I return to my glass of blended scotch. SCOTCH IT OUT!
Quote from Johnny Walker:
I read Soros's book and he implied VN was a gambler and essentially a douche bag who is prone to blow out.
Not only that, but VN confirmed this in his own book, Education of a Speculator. There is a beach anecdote, Soros is warning him, telling him to watch out for the waves, telling him he is going to get pulled under. that the waves were too big for him. I guess Niederhoffer thought this was funny.
Then there is the Yen story, where Vic brags about taking his fund to the brink of death, envisioning himself as Hemingway's Old Man & The Sea as he watches the screen for three days, waiting for a handful of ticks to blow him out. He survives within an inch of his life, goes home a complete wreck, and somehow thinks this is a cool story, that this is a story to inspire his investors and show his speculative manhood. Moron.
He telegraphed the blowout in his own book. It was written on half the pages. I'm telling you, the guy has loose wiring. Maybe some weird complex involving his parents, or something that happened in the Brighton Beach squash tournament.
Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom
Quote from archimedes:
Not only that, but VN confirmed this in his own book, Education of a Speculator. There is a beach anecdote, Soros is warning him, telling him to watch out for the waves, telling him he is going to get pulled under. that the waves were too big for him. I guess Niederhoffer thought this was funny.
Then there is the Yen story, where Vic brags about taking his fund to the brink of death, envisioning himself as Hemingway's Old Man & The Sea as watches the screen for three days, waiting for a handful of ticks to blow him out. He somehow survives within an inch of his life, goes home a complete wreck, and somehow thinks this is a cool story, that this is a story to inspire his investors and show his speculative manhood. Moron.
He telegraphed the blowout in his own book. It was written on half the pages. I'm telling you, the guy has loose wiring. Maybe some weird complex involving his parents, or something that happened in the Brighton Beach squash tournament.
I have to agree, although I do not take pleasure in the misfortunes of others.
The most dangerous character flaw of a trader is hubris, and he has had plenty of that in his career. What is most unforgiving is that he is not some dumb schmuck who lost after he got lucky. He is a highly educated Ph.D. from a top university (U of Chicago).
I have both of his books, but that yen story still irks me to this day. Anyone who has kids knows that you don't put your family's financial security in jeopardy just because you get off playing Russian roulette with the markets.
Quote from archimedes:
Hear Hear. After Vic blows up again, he should open yet another fund: Dead Cat Capital LLC
How about the Riptide Fund, as in the ocean currents that pull EVERYONE under who fight against them, including world class swimmers who think they can muscle the tide?
Sounds like his career in a nutshell.