Boykins affair threatens Bush reelection

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:



So your position would be that being a committed Christian and a General in the Army fighting Islamic terrorists are incompatible? Or just if one actually gives voice to their beliefs? I think maybe I misunderstood the "Don't ask-don't tell" policy.

It's perfectly obvious that we are not attacking Islam in some sort of CrusadesII religious war. We don't need to prove our good faith, as we have consistently accomodated Muslims. We went to war to establish an Islamic state in Kosovo, we apparently are quite content for the Iraqi constitution to identify it as an Islamic state and , unlike virtually every Islamic regime, we allow Islam and any other religion to be practiced openly here. We allow Saudi Arabia to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into radical Islamist mosques and schools in our own country, even as we forbid servicemen in war areas to receive Bibles or wear religious symbols, for fear of offending Muslims.

We did not attack Muslims on religious grounds. They attacked us. That's an important distinction that keeps getting lost in this PC fog. We have bent over backward to cater to the Saudis and a bunch of carping Muslim pressure groups and I, for one, am sick of it.
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You are sick of it.

OK, now lets be reasonable.

I have no problem with someone who is a practicing Druid, Wicken, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist etc. being a general in the U.S. Army fighting terrorism.

I would have no problem with that general saying that terrorists are wicked, evil minded, depraved, and their leaders are villainous, detestable, diabolic, etc.

I do have a problem when that general says the Islamic terrorists worship Satan, and that our God is greater than their God.

See, saying we are opposed to the actions of Islamic terrorists is quite different than saying Allah's terrorists, or our God beat their God.

You don't see the subtle but important difference?

Here is what you said in the initial post of this thread.

"Apparently it is, as Gen. boykins made a few offhand references to terrorists being led by satan and told a story about a somali thug who boasted that allah would protect him but, in Gen. Boykin's words, found out that the God of Abraham was bigger than the idol he worshipped."

Offhand references? Is that what they were? Calling someone else's God an idol? Calling someone else's God Satan?

By denouncing the God or Gods of a religion, you are in essence denouncing all followers of that religion.

Can't you see that?

And no, just because we as a country have done the right thing not to make this a holy war doesn't justify or excuse the "offhand" remarks of a general.

In this case Bush isn't "courting Muslims" he is doing the right thing to denounce the general's statements as not reflective of what is right. Anyone who hates all Muslims because of the actions of Islamic extremists is an extremist themselves.

"We did not attack Muslims on religious grounds. They attacked us. That's an important distinction that keeps getting lost in this PC fog. We have bent over backward to cater to the Saudis and a bunch of carping Muslim pressure groups and I, for one, am sick of it."

Terrorists who happen to be Muslim, and happen to practice a wrong interpretation of Islam attacked us, not Islam as a whole. It is important to keep this distinction very clear.

Now, if you openly hate Muslims and think Allah is Satan, that is your personal right....but if you were in a public position of power to exercise that hatred in your decision making then you need to be removed from that position.
 
***Terrorists who happen to be Muslim, and happen to practice a wrong interpretation of Islam attacked us, not Islam as a whole. It is important to keep this distinction very clear.***

Actually, what's clear is that you don't have a clue what Islam is, and upon which principles it was founded.

If one wishes to practice Islam correctly, one must live their life in the same manner as the Prophet Mohammad led his.

Mohammad was a bloodthirsty bandit pedophile who murdered the entire Jewish population of Medina- even after signing a 'peace treaty' with part of that population. The Koran is a vile sick twisted book of an overgrown death-cult. I like the part where it recommends that a man beat his wife in order to keep her in line. Yes, what a peaceful, misunderstood religion. Just what one would expect, when your 'prophet' was a delusional gang-leader who liked having sex with 9 year old girls.

A few quotes from the Koran:

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

____
Bin Laden has NOT hijacked Islam!

He is living his life as a bloodthirsty terrorist murderer, just as the prophet Mohammad led his own life. Bin Laden obeys his religion to the letter.


_____
The world’s highest authority of Sunni Islam, Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of al-Azhar University in Cairo, is telling Muslims that suicide bombings are just fine with God: Suicide attacks on US-led troops in Iraq permitted.

Suicide attacks on the US-led coalition in Iraq are "permitted under (Islamic) religious law," the sheikh of Al-Azhar, the highest Sunni Muslim spiritual authority, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, said here Saturday.

"Martyr operations against the invading forces are permitted under religious law," he said, quoted by the official MENA news agency.

Tantawi described the invasion of Iraq to oust the regime of Saddam Hussein as "an unjust aggression".

"Whoever attacks others, spilling blood, harming the other's honour and land is a terrorist," he added, referring to the US-led coalition.
Hat tip: NC, who says MSNBC is reporting that Al Jazeera has the Sheikh’s speech on a loop, showing it over and over to the Arab world.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:

***Terrorists who happen to be Muslim, and happen to practice a wrong interpretation of Islam attacked us, not Islam as a whole. It is important to keep this distinction very clear.***

Actually, what's clear is that you don't have a clue what Islam is, and upon which principles it was founded.

If one wishes to practice Islam correctly, one must live their life in the same manner as the Prophet Mohammad led his.

Mohammad was a bloodthirsty bandit pedophile who murdered the entire Jewish population of Medina- even after signing a 'peace treaty' with part of that population. The Koran is a vile sick twisted book of an overgrown death-cult. I like the part where it recommends that a man beat his wife in order to keep her in line. Yes, what a peaceful, misunderstood religion. Just what one would expect, when your 'prophet' was a delusional gang-leader who liked having sex with 9 year old girls.

A few quotes from the Koran:

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

____
Bin Laden has NOT hijacked Islam!

He is living his life as a bloodthirsty terrorist murderer, just as the prophet Mohammad led his own life. Bin Laden obeys his religion to the letter.


_____
The world’s highest authority of Sunni Islam, Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of al-Azhar University in Cairo, is telling Muslims that suicide bombings are just fine with God: Suicide attacks on US-led troops in Iraq permitted.

Suicide attacks on the US-led coalition in Iraq are "permitted under (Islamic) religious law," the sheikh of Al-Azhar, the highest Sunni Muslim spiritual authority, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, said here Saturday.

"Martyr operations against the invading forces are permitted under religious law," he said, quoted by the official MENA news agency.

Tantawi described the invasion of Iraq to oust the regime of Saddam Hussein as "an unjust aggression".

"Whoever attacks others, spilling blood, harming the other's honour and land is a terrorist," he added, referring to the US-led coalition.
Hat tip: NC, who says MSNBC is reporting that Al Jazeera has the Sheikh’s speech on a loop, showing it over and over to the Arab world.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php
More...

"Actually, what's clear is that you don't have a clue what Islam is, and upon which principles it was founded."


Oh, so you are claiming to be the expert in Islam? You are the new Islamic prophet who properly interprets the true message of Mohamed? Those who practice Islam peacefully, as the vast majority of Muslims do are wrong in their practice and not following the wishes of Allah?

You are in fact a religious fanatic and bigot, and the spreading of religious bigotry is against the spirit of the United States of America and absolutely unAmerican.
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:

***Terrorists who happen to be Muslim, and happen to practice a wrong interpretation of Islam attacked us, not Islam as a whole. It is important to keep this distinction very clear.***

Actually, what's clear is that you don't have a clue what Islam is, and upon which principles it was founded.

If one wishes to practice Islam correctly, one must live their life in the same manner as the Prophet Mohammad led his.

Mohammad was a bloodthirsty bandit pedophile who murdered the entire Jewish population of Medina- even after signing a 'peace treaty' with part of that population. The Koran is a vile sick twisted book of an overgrown death-cult. I like the part where it recommends that a man beat his wife in order to keep her in line. Yes, what a peaceful, misunderstood religion. Just what one would expect, when your 'prophet' was a delusional gang-leader who liked having sex with 9 year old girls.

A few quotes from the Koran:

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

____
Bin Laden has NOT hijacked Islam!

He is living his life as a bloodthirsty terrorist murderer, just as the prophet Mohammad led his own life. Bin Laden obeys his religion to the letter.


_____
The world’s highest authority of Sunni Islam, Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of al-Azhar University in Cairo, is telling Muslims that suicide bombings are just fine with God: Suicide attacks on US-led troops in Iraq permitted.

Suicide attacks on the US-led coalition in Iraq are "permitted under (Islamic) religious law," the sheikh of Al-Azhar, the highest Sunni Muslim spiritual authority, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, said here Saturday.

"Martyr operations against the invading forces are permitted under religious law," he said, quoted by the official MENA news agency.

Tantawi described the invasion of Iraq to oust the regime of Saddam Hussein as "an unjust aggression".

"Whoever attacks others, spilling blood, harming the other's honour and land is a terrorist," he added, referring to the US-led coalition.
Hat tip: NC, who says MSNBC is reporting that Al Jazeera has the Sheikh’s speech on a loop, showing it over and over to the Arab world.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php
More...


Quotes from the Koran are easily taken out of context just to serve the purpose of bashing Islam. Same can be done with the bible. For every Islamic terrorist, there are hundreds of peaceful muslims. Sad to see such stereotyping and ignorance, that's why there will never be peace in the world. You're just as hateful as they are by making such comments. Start with yourself. Learn to see the humanity in everyone.
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:

***Terrorists who happen to be Muslim, and happen to practice a wrong interpretation of Islam attacked us, not Islam as a whole. It is important to keep this distinction very clear.***

Actually, what's clear is that you don't have a clue what Islam is, and upon which principles it was founded.

If one wishes to practice Islam correctly, one must live their life in the same manner as the Prophet Mohammad led his.

Mohammad was a bloodthirsty bandit pedophile who murdered the entire Jewish population of Medina- even after signing a 'peace treaty' with part of that population. The Koran is a vile sick twisted book of an overgrown death-cult. I like the part where it recommends that a man beat his wife in order to keep her in line. Yes, what a peaceful, misunderstood religion. Just what one would expect, when your 'prophet' was a delusional gang-leader who liked having sex with 9 year old girls.

A few quotes from the Koran:

You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

____
Bin Laden has NOT hijacked Islam!

He is living his life as a bloodthirsty terrorist murderer, just as the prophet Mohammad led his own life. Bin Laden obeys his religion to the letter.


_____
The world’s highest authority of Sunni Islam, Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of al-Azhar University in Cairo, is telling Muslims that suicide bombings are just fine with God: Suicide attacks on US-led troops in Iraq permitted.

Suicide attacks on the US-led coalition in Iraq are "permitted under (Islamic) religious law," the sheikh of Al-Azhar, the highest Sunni Muslim spiritual authority, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, said here Saturday.

"Martyr operations against the invading forces are permitted under religious law," he said, quoted by the official MENA news agency.

Tantawi described the invasion of Iraq to oust the regime of Saddam Hussein as "an unjust aggression".

"Whoever attacks others, spilling blood, harming the other's honour and land is a terrorist," he added, referring to the US-led coalition.
Hat tip: NC, who says MSNBC is reporting that Al Jazeera has the Sheikh’s speech on a loop, showing it over and over to the Arab world.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php
More...
yeah what's with all these people calling islam (and other religions) peaceful?! so often i hear on tv that islam is a peaceful religion. doesn't seem like it to me.

then they say it's only the "extremists" who are not peaceful. an "extremist" follows the religion as it is.

is a police officer a "extremist" for following all the laws???? am i a "extremist" citizen if i obey the laws of my country??????? am i an "extremist" student if i do all my homework!?!??!

this is all about people realizing their religion is a bunch of bs, then they make up excuses or reasons for still believing in it.

as Rearden Metal has shown, islam is factually NOT a peaceful religion. let's stop pretending it is.
 
Quote from ARogueTrader:



... .
I do have a problem when that general says the Islamic terrorists worship Satan, and that our God is greater than their God.

See, saying we are opposed to the actions of Islamic terrorists is quite different than saying Allah's terrorists, or our God beat their God.

... .
Offhand references? Is that what they were? Calling someone else's God an idol? Calling someone else's God Satan?

By denouncing the God or Gods of a religion, you are in essence denouncing all followers of that religion.

Can't you see that?

... .
In this case Bush isn't "courting Muslims" he is doing the right thing to denounce the general's statements as not reflective of what is right. Anyone who hates all Muslims because of the actions of Islamic extremists is an extremist themselves.

... .
Terrorists who happen to be Muslim, and happen to practice a wrong interpretation of Islam attacked us, not Islam as a whole. It is important to keep this distinction very clear.

Now, if you openly hate Muslims and think Allah is Satan, that is your personal right....but if you were in a public position of power to exercise that hatred in your decision making then you need to be removed from that position.
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We are beginning to go round in circles, so I will not belabor this. First, I think what you see as hate speech or bigotry, ie demeaning someone else's religion, I see as freedom of religion. If you are a Believer, then you do not accept Allah as equivalent to your God, nor do you view Islam as equivalent to Christianity. Like many liberals, you apparently want to control not only people's actions but also their thoughts and expressions and punish any wrong thinking. There is no evidence whatsoever that Gen. Boykins persecuted Muslims or acted inappropriately in any way. He is as entitled to his religious beliefs as the Muslims who are screaming for his head.

Second, you seem to be making a logical inference, namely that Gen. Boykins "hates" muslims, that does not seem warranted. If he indeed had a pathological hatred of all Muslims, this would be a different matter, but that is not the issue. There has been no suggestion that he lacks the ability to distinguish between peaceful Muslims and terrorists or combatants. Instead, his words in a private religious setting are said to be offensive. To me that is a very different matter than what you are suggesting.

Personally, I think we have gone too far in trying to prove that our intentions are pure. We are giving these radical clerics in Iraq much more room to incite their followers against us than we would have given secular leaders. I think that is a big mistake, one that our soldiers are paying for with their lives.

I think Bush is needlessly threatening his reelection here, both with this Boykins incident and with the overall Iraq policy, including the lack of security and the massive taxpayer financed rebuilding.
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)
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i am an "unbeliever." according to the religion AS IT IS STATED--NOT SOME WATERED DOWN HAPPY FACE SPIN OFF--I SHOULD BE MUTILATED AND/OR MURDERED.

THEN SOME PEOPLE HAVE THE NERVE TO ASK WHY I DON'T RESPECT RELIGION?!?!?!? I'M GONNA RESPECT SOME RELIGIOUS CRAP THAT TELLS ITS FOLLOWERS TO KILL ME!!!!!!!?!?

YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote from Rearden Metal:

Bin Laden has NOT hijacked Islam!

He is living his life as a bloodthirsty terrorist murderer, just as the prophet Mohammad led his own life. Bin Laden obeys his religion to the letter.
More...
SO TRUE, SO TRUE!!!!!!

THIS IS THE TRUTH--NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE ON TV OR OUR GOVERNMENT SAYS!!!!!!
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:



First, I think what you see as hate speech or bigotry, ie demeaning someone else's religion, I see as freedom of religion.
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You have an odd sense of practicing freedom of religion.
 
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