BOX Trading Starts Friday Morning, February 6, 2004

[nitro]

Quote from TonySanDiego:

and.. that is ??????

The theory is that it mutes volatility.

Although there is no question that the volatility is down from the dot-com years, I would not be surprised to find that, if you compare percentage (momentum) moves of today with percentage (momentum) moves pre-dot-com era, that they would pretty much coincide.

People want to blame everything on pennies. Usually those people were not trading back pre-'98.

My guess is they had an effect, but not nearly as much as people attribute to them.

nitro

 

[Nordic]

Quote from nitro:

If you do the kind of volume we do, this is a HUGE cost.

But that is besides the point. It is ridiculous that I should try to hit a bid or lift an offer, the market maker looks at my order, decides he does not want to fill me, backs away, and now posts my order as the best bid or offer on his regional exchange. Now I get charged to cancel because I did _NOT_ want to make a market.

It is absurd! They need one more order type - FILL OR KILL. Now, when the MM doesn't fill me either because he backs away, or I tried to get filled on a posted order withing say 1 second of him displaying it but someone else took it first, it is automatically canceled by the system, and since THEY KILL the order, I don't get charged a cancel fee.

This is the only half way decent way to not anger people that want to trade at a POSTED market, but if the market moves away for whatever reason, they no longer want to participate in it without having to be punished for it.

nitro

FYI Nitro,

Your execution agent, (I believe in your case IB) does not necessarily absorb a cancel charge every time you cancel a trade. The fee is based on the number of fills vs the number of cancels on a monthly basis.

 

[resinate]

Quote from Nordic:

FYI Nitro,

Your execution agent, (I believe in your case IB) does not necessarily absorb a cancel charge every time you cancel a trade. The fee is based on the number of fills vs the number of cancels on a monthly basis.

Yes.... I'm sure IB is making a nice killing on those fees. Like Nordic says, they are not always charged and the fee is less than 1.20. Add to that, the fact that CBOE instituted a monthly fee cap......

 

[nitro]

Quote from Nordic:

FYI Nitro,

Your execution agent, (I believe in your case IB) does not necessarily absorb a cancel charge every time you cancel a trade. The fee is based on the number of fills vs the number of cancels on a monthly basis.

Nordic,

No, this part of my trading is not with IB. This is with the proprietary group I am with.

However, I have tried this as an experiment with IB, and when I get my statement the next day, I see the cancel fees then, not at the end of the month.

nitro

 

[nitro]

Quote from ertrader1:

What the hell are you talking about......the BOX has 4 , thats right 4 equite options and volume is thin..

5 symbols, not 4.

AZO, INTC, GE, HON, ERICY

nitro

 

[def]

Quote from nitro:

5 symbols, not 4.

AZO, INTC, GE, HON, ERICY

nitro

and the list will quickly grow to over 200. (IB will shortly be offering clients more order types so they can better control what they send into the PIP.

BTW, we don't make a killing off of cancel/modify fees as there is a real cost to throughput.

 

[stock777]

Quote from nitro:

The theory is that it mutes volatility.

Although there is no question that the volatility is down from the dot-com years, I would not be surprised to find that, if you compare percentage (momentum) moves of today with percentage (momentum) moves pre-dot-com era, that they would pretty much coincide.

People want to blame everything on pennies. Usually those people were not trading back pre-'98.

My guess is they had an effect, but not nearly as much as people attribute to them.

nitro

I wonder is they haven't had more of an effect than we think. MM's depend on certain , let's call them strategies, to get the price to where they want to do business. In the good old days, they would move stick 1/8, 1/4, maybe 2 or 3 of those levels. Now, they can dance around within 3-10 cents for the same effect.

I don't think this affects large moves, only the scalping type moves.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from stock777:



I don't think this affects large moves, only the scalping type moves.

yes. i agree.

surfer

 

[metooxx]

Quote from def:

and the list will quickly grow to over 200. (IB will shortly be offering clients more order types so they can better control what they send into the PIP.

BTW, we don't make a killing off of cancel/modify fees as there is a real cost to throughput.

huh...

 

[Nordic]

Quote from nitro:

Nordic,

No, this part of my trading is not with IB. This is with the proprietary group I am with.

However, I have tried this as an experiment with IB, and when I get my statement the next day, I see the cancel fees then, not at the end of the month.

nitro

Dude, That's my point. At the end of the month, IB ( or who-ever your execution agent is) will end the month on the plus side in fills vs. cancels. Therefore they will not absorb any cancel fees.

:eek: