"Bowling for Columbine"

tampa · Sep 20, 2003

"
"Florida State University criminologist, Gary Kleck, analyzed data from the Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey (1992-1998). Describing his findings on defensive gun use, in Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control, New York

rometheus Books (2001)

Axie, would you like to tell us about Gary? I mean who commissioned the book? And the statistics he quotes - how come no one else quotes them?

I can answer for you. The good Prof is more than a member in good standing in the NRA - he has a financial relationship with them...they commissioned the book. And most, if not all of the "statistics" you are so fond of quoting - like the 2+ million gun owners who thwart crime each year - well, they ain't exactly like real statistics - it is an extrapolation, a guess.

Did you bother to mention that earlier?

Man, ain't it a bitch when your antagonist knows what he's talking about? About the best a boy can do is declare victory, post a picture of a broom, and hope no one else will notice,

Axie, you are a moron...as you have demonstrated many times. But what the hey, I ain't all that swift myself. the difference between us is that when I am proven wrong (like your contention that liable and slander were against the law, just to mention one) I have the decency to admit my error - or at least slink away in disgrace.

But don't dispair - that mental giant Gekko still looks up to you...(smirk)

tampa · Sep 20, 2003

Quote from axeman:

"In a logistic regression analysis, Kleck and Miriam Delone ("Victim Resistance and Offender Weapon Effects in Robbery," Journal of Quantitative Criminology 9 [1993]: 55-82) found that...

There goes your theory.

peace

axeman

You guys thought that I was bullshittin' when I said that the so called stats weren't like real stats - didn't you.

Well there it is, listed above. Do you know what "logistic regression" means? It means extrapolation...a guess. One might call it an "educated guess"...you take a body of "real" statistics - like 2 robberies were thwarted by gun owners...you then say that there are x number of gun owners, x number of robberies, therefore, y number of robberies "could" have been...get the picture. It's not a statistic, it's a guess, at best - wishful thinking at worst.

Perhaps, there goes your cover, Axie

Gordon Gekko · Sep 20, 2003

Quote from bronks:

Somehow violence and killing have become glorified and cool in this country, and I blame the entertainment industry wholeheartedly.

somewhat agree...

Quote from bronks:

They've got blood on their hands for the proliferation and profit of violent movies and TV, and violent music.

...totally DISAGREE.

i am a HUGE supporter of the 1st amendment.

as axeman said earlier when discussing guns, it's the PERSON that is the problem, not the gun. blaming anything else but the person is just avoiding whatever the real issue is. THAT'S THE REALITY!

i've seen the most violent movies. i've played the most violent video games. i've listened to violent music. i've seen violent porn, etc. NONE OF THIS HAS MADE ME A VIOLENT PERSON. i am one of the most non-violent humans on planet earth. i don't eat meat and i try not to kill living things, including bugs.

if all the violence hasn't screwed me up, then IT'S SOMETHING ELSE that causes human beings to be violent.

by the way, i hate it when i hear people talking about wanting to ban violent movies, etc. I SHOULD NOT BE DEPRIVED OF THINGS I ENJOY BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE IS A SHITTY HUMAN BEING. i should be able to watch any violent movie i want or play any violent video game. if another guy is violent, find out what is different between him and i, then work on fixing THAT.

Quote from axeman:

Continue to blame the gun instead of the individual
and you will never solve the problem.

Quote from axeman:

It's NOT the weapons people, it's US! You and me.

Americans like to drop all responsibility and point
at inanimate objects and blame them instead of THEMSELVES.

This is the big issue. Look in the mirror.

axeman · Sep 20, 2003

Your truly a class act tampa.

Are personal attacks the only non-form of debate
you are capable of? How about committing the poisoning
the well fallacy?

What if I said something like:

Better than a misguided, brain fried, ex-acid dropping,
bleeding heart hippy who has destroyed so much of his
brain he has the IQ of a newborn newt?

Should that convince anyone they shouldn't listen to you?

peace

axeman

Quote from tampa:

Better a drama queen than a two-faced paranoid who trys to hide his fear/hate of minorities behind the Constitution - not to mention supporting the drunk Alzheimer suffering moron who fronts for the NRA.

axeman · Sep 20, 2003

And I remember a story where a police swat team
armory was robbed of military style rifles.

so what? Should we outlaw the swat team?

Anyone with a basic understanding of statistics
knows you cant understand the big picture
with a single bad sample as you are proposing.

Here is a clue for you... the criminals already have
access to tons of guns.

When some moron judge does something like this
YOU DO NOT BLAME the rest of law abiding citizens,
you blame the individual.

Yet another example of liberals attempting to blame
everything other than the responsible criminal.

peace

axeman

Quote from tampa:

Hey Axie, since you know so much about Florida, and it's RTC, perhaps you can tell us about Harry Lee Coe.

Well I'll save you the trouble. Harry was a major supporter of RTC. He was a judge back then, who went on to become Hillsborough County's Chief Attorney. During Harry's term in office he "lost" six *yes, six) hand guns issued to him. Did the NRA funded book you are so fond of quoting mention Harry, or his six missing hand guns. Till the dat Harry died, at the other end of the seventh gun issued to him (he blew his brains out under an over pass not 4 blocks from here), they never did find any of Harry's missing guns.

Do you care about Harry's missing guns? Or the fact that Harry was a drunk. Or that Harry was a compulsive gambler who died deeply in debt - read that as Harry had serious emotional problems. Of course not. So there are six guns out there tonight - presumably not in the hands of upstanding folks. What would you suggest I do? Don't tell me - get a gun, to protect myself.

axeman · Sep 20, 2003

Tampa now has to resort to OUTRIGHT LIES in an attempt
to beat me at this debate.

How utterly pathetic.

Are you on acid right now tampa? Be truthful.

Here are the facts that show what a complete and
pathetic LIAR you are.

People can freely check them on their own

------------------------------------------------
Gary Kleck, Ph.D., professor in the School of Criminology and Criminal Justice at Florida State University, is considered the dean of criminologists on firearms issues by his colleagues in the American Society of Criminology, who in 1993 awarded Kleck its coveted Hindelang Award for his book Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America (Aldine de Gruyter, 1991). Kleck's unimpeachable liberal credentials--he's a registered Democrat and a member of Common Cause and Amnesty International, as examples--precludes any possibility of pro-conservative or pro- NRA bias. He takes no funding from any partisan in the gun-control debate.

------------------------------------------------

Kleck is a well respected criminologist and has never
been a member of the NRA to my knowledge.

His credentials far outweigh yours.

You have serious issues man.
You have completely lost any CRUMB of credibility with this post.

peace

axeman

Quote from tampa:

"
"Florida State University criminologist, Gary Kleck, analyzed data from the Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey (1992-1998). Describing his findings on defensive gun use, in Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control, New Yorkrometheus Books (2001)

Axie, would you like to tell us about Gary? I mean who commissioned the book? And the statistics he quotes - how come no one else quotes them?

I can answer for you. The good Prof is more than a member in good standing in the NRA - he has a financial relationship with them...they commissioned the book. And most, if not all of the "statistics" you are so fond of quoting - like the 2+ million gun owners who thwart crime each year - well, they ain't exactly like real statistics - it is an extrapolation, a guess.

Did you bother to mention that earlier?

Man, ain't it a bitch when your antagonist knows what he's talking about? About the best a boy can do is declare victory, post a picture of a broom, and hope no one else will notice,

Axie, you are a moron...as you have demonstrated many times. But what the hey, I ain't all that swift myself. the difference between us is that when I am proven wrong (like your contention that liable and slander were against the law, just to mention one) I have the decency to admit my error - or at least slink away in disgrace.

But don't dispair - that mental giant Gekko still looks up to you...(smirk)

tampa · Sep 20, 2003

Quote from axeman:

Yet another example of liberals attempting to blame
everything other than the responsible criminal.

peace

axeman

No Axie, it's another example of a neo-con living in denial...blaming everyone else...pointing fingers in the hope no one will look at him...

I stand on my assertion that his statistics are based on extrapolation, and his work was commissioned bty the NRA -period.

You can call me any name that pleases you, but it won't change the fact that either you were not aware of the bok's origins, or worse yet, were...

axeman · Sep 20, 2003

No one cares what you have to say tampa.

You just proved to everyone what a completely
dishonest and slimy person you are by blatantly
LYING in a pathetic attempt to defend your weak position.

All you can do is attack peoples character instead
of debating points intellectually.

You are not worth my time.

Go drop some more acid and leave the people who
still have a brain alone to debate.

You utterly disgust me.

peace

axeman

Quote from tampa:

No Axie, it's another example of a neo-con living in denial...blaming everyone else...pointing fingers in the hope no one will look at him...

Pabst · Sep 21, 2003

Cool Site. (BTW I'm not Jewish though)

http://www.jpfo.org/

tampa · Sep 21, 2003

Quote from axeman:

No one cares what you have to say tampa.

You just proved to everyone what a completely
dishonest and slimy person you are by blatantly
LYING in a pathetic attempt to defend your weak position.

All you can do is attack peoples character instead
of debating points intellectually.

You are not worth my time.

Go drop some more acid and leave the people who
still have a brain alone to debate.

You utterly disgust me.

peace

axeman

maybe you'd answer just one question for me, Axie - can I get a copy of Gary's book from/through the NRA?