"Bowling for Columbine"
- Thread starter nitro
- Start date
This is something I'm an advocate about...
I think things will improve greatly (accidents at home et cetera) if those that wish to purchase a gun must go through training and then tested and possibly have their home evaluated to ensure the weapon is stored in a safe place.
Yet...the other problem remains...what about those (criminals or soon to be criminals) that have access (illegally) to weapons...
therefore avoiding the training and testing process???
Another concern...anger by those that are trained.
I have a friend (ex Army Ranger)...
He's a law biding citizen...has a good job and nice family, believes in the right to protect his family...
He has a registered weapon and is well-trained in its use while keeping it in a safe place in his home...in a lock box hidden in his home.
Several weeks ago...his sister was beaten by her boyfriend...sister refused to press charges...
My buddy...in a fit of rage...went over to the guys house...kicked in his door...
pulled out his gun and stuck it in the guys mouth and told him he'll be a dead man if he ever touches his sister again...
That guy (boyfriend of my friends sister) pee on himself while his 2 young children (from a prior marriage) witness the entire event...
Children my friend was too enrage to see and didn't realize was there.
My point is this...today you can be a law bidding citizen...
tomorrow...rage can change all of that and your no different than any other criminal.
Note: My friend was arrested and faces numerous charges. It was his first time inside of a police station after being arrested.
Now...what about those kids that saw this horrible thing???
Last of all...I've grew up in some bad neighborhoods (for 5 years) that police officers, firetrucks and paramedics are afraid to go into...
Criminals will ALWAYS have a way to get a firearm...
ALWAYS...
either to protect themselves from other criminals or to commit crimes.
Law enforcement officers also commit crimes (murder) out of anger...against other citizens or family members.
Is education the key???
Anger has a way of turning something for defense into something for offense.
Gun bans???
Many criminals will still have access.
Longer and stiffer prison terms???
Only if the tax payers are willing to pay for such and such is still a band-aid solution...
Yet...it's better than doing nothing.
I remember a party at a Pac 10 school and this guy got very anger about people outside yelling profanity at his frat house or the house he was attending a party...
In his rage...he picked up beer bottle (un-open) and threw it at the crowd outside...
Bottle hit this asian girl and put her eye out.
At a Big 10 school (years earlier)...in between classes during the day...2 blocks away from my class...
An angry ex-boyfriend (honor student...never been in trouble with the law) of another student...
calmly waited outside his ex-girlfriend class...grabbed her from behind and stabbed her repeatedly with a 8 inch carving knife before other students could wrestle him down onto the ground.
She died in the ambulance on her way to the hospital.
The day before...the ex-boyfriend roommate took his gun away after hearing the roommate wanted to shoot her because she had a new boyfriend.
Is guns or firearms really the issue???
Heck...I have two 44 inch slugger baseball bats...strategically placed in my residence for protection of my family.
What about baseball bats???
Growing up in a poor neighborhood...five other kids and I saw a drunk get murdered by 2 teenagers with baseball bats...aluminum.
While I attended a soccer match in France of my favorite team...angry fans after our team lost...
attacked fans of the winning team that was rubbing it in a little too much.
An old guy trying to protect his teenage son was knocked down to the ground pretty hard...
the guy then had a heart attack and died on the way to the hospital.
Is this really about guns or is this about something else???
Living here in Canada...I've seen more incidents of passive aggressiveness than I did when I lived in the U.S. or France...
I tell my spouse...Canada is ready to explode from anger.
I'm not worried...I have two 44 inch slugger baseball bats to protect my family
NihabaAshi
What's the problem, Axie? Everyone knows what the answer should be.
Perhaps the problem is that that washed up actor who fronts for the NRA is an alcoholic with early Alzheimer's.
Have you ever heard the term: Intellectual Honesty? Me thinks that it might apply here, don't you? Me further thinks that you, and your kind seem a little short in hat department.
when i was like 15, one morning our neighbor told us that they saw someone walking around our house looking in our windows late the previous night. it was in the winter and it snowed that night, so there was new snow on the ground. sure enough, there were footprints in the snow around our windows.
this terrorized my family for many nights. we could not sleep wondering if they would try again. for about a week, my family members and i took turns staying up at night. you may laugh at this, but if it happens to you, it is a terrible feeling.
eventually my father bought a gun. i felt a little better knowing we at least had something to defend ourselves with if someone broke in. my father would be the wrong guy to mess with in a circumstance like this.
this terrorized my family for many nights. we could not sleep wondering if they would try again. for about a week, my family members and i took turns staying up at night. you may laugh at this, but if it happens to you, it is a terrible feeling.
eventually my father bought a gun. i felt a little better knowing we at least had something to defend ourselves with if someone broke in. my father would be the wrong guy to mess with in a circumstance like this.
Responding to yourself I see? 
Tampax, I assume this ridiculous post exists because I was away
from home and could not immediately respond?
Everyone knows what the answer should be?
I think the wording of your question insures that you are wrong.
It's more complicated than you make it seem.
First of all.... a certain percentage of the people you
mentioned are already, in fact, given drivers licenses, right?
Alcoholics drive cars. (Hopefully not drunk).
People who are bipolar drive cars.
Recreational drug users drive cars. (Hopefully not high).
Past acid dropping drugies like yourself also drive cars. (maybe you don't?)
Why is that? Because even though they may have some
"condition", it does not prevent them from passing the
requirements to drive a car.
It would be no different for firearms. Come up with an objective
list of requirements for firearms ownership, and then let
the requirements decide on wether or not you are
capable of possessing a firearm.
Coming up with this list is the hard part.
peace
axeman
Tampax, I assume this ridiculous post exists because I was away
from home and could not immediately respond?
Everyone knows what the answer should be?
I think the wording of your question insures that you are wrong.
It's more complicated than you make it seem.
First of all.... a certain percentage of the people you
mentioned are already, in fact, given drivers licenses, right?
Alcoholics drive cars. (Hopefully not drunk).
People who are bipolar drive cars.
Recreational drug users drive cars. (Hopefully not high).
Past acid dropping drugies like yourself also drive cars. (maybe you don't?)
Why is that? Because even though they may have some
"condition", it does not prevent them from passing the
requirements to drive a car.
It would be no different for firearms. Come up with an objective
list of requirements for firearms ownership, and then let
the requirements decide on wether or not you are
capable of possessing a firearm.
Coming up with this list is the hard part.
peace
axeman
Your on the right track Nihaba.
All the stats point in that direction.
You can find countries armed to the teeth which are violent.
You can find countries armed to the teeth that are NON-violent.
You can find countries that are NOT armed and very violent.
You can find countries that are NOT armed and NOT violent.
It's NOT the weapons people, it's US! You and me.
Americans like to drop all responsibility and point
at inanimate objects and blame them instead of THEMSELVES.
This is the big issue. Look in the mirror.
-----------------
A little story.
I had a friend in North Carolina that purchased a firearm.
Did not live in the greatest of neighborhoods.
I made him get firearm safety training, and took him shooting
so he was comfortable with his firearm.
The next year, his marriage fell apart. His wife was cheating
on him, etc. It was ugly. I went over to his house
and reasoned with him. I removed the firearm from the
household until a much latter date when things had cooled
down and were settled.
I have done the same thing for myself, at time when I had
a firearm in the home. If "shit" was happening at home,
I remove my firearm and gave it to a responsible firearm
owner for a while.
If everyone was better educated, and americans were
more personally responsible for their actions, I think
a LOT of things would change.
Your comments about raising our children properly, etc...
THOSE are the types of things, which I believe, will make
a change.
peace
axeman
All the stats point in that direction.
You can find countries armed to the teeth which are violent.
You can find countries armed to the teeth that are NON-violent.
You can find countries that are NOT armed and very violent.
You can find countries that are NOT armed and NOT violent.
It's NOT the weapons people, it's US! You and me.
Americans like to drop all responsibility and point
at inanimate objects and blame them instead of THEMSELVES.
This is the big issue. Look in the mirror.
-----------------
A little story.
I had a friend in North Carolina that purchased a firearm.
Did not live in the greatest of neighborhoods.
I made him get firearm safety training, and took him shooting
so he was comfortable with his firearm.
The next year, his marriage fell apart. His wife was cheating
on him, etc. It was ugly. I went over to his house
and reasoned with him. I removed the firearm from the
household until a much latter date when things had cooled
down and were settled.
I have done the same thing for myself, at time when I had
a firearm in the home. If "shit" was happening at home,
I remove my firearm and gave it to a responsible firearm
owner for a while.
If everyone was better educated, and americans were
more personally responsible for their actions, I think
a LOT of things would change.
Your comments about raising our children properly, etc...
THOSE are the types of things, which I believe, will make
a change.
peace
axeman
I know the feeling GG.
I lived in inner city Baltimore maryland while scraping
through college, living off of top ramen
The local drug dealer lived 2 doors down from me.
Lots of gun shells in the park and needles, etc...
The ghetto bird flew around at night about once a month.
NOT a safe place to live.
My roommates and I ALL had firearms.
One night....the ghetto bird was out looking for someone.
I lived in a 2 story row house.
Im a SUPER LIGHT sleeper and was already awake from
the chopper flying around.
My roommates were not there that night. I was alone.
On the bottom floor I heard the back door slide open after
being popped off its cheap ass rail
Dude... I was FREAKED. I grabbed my firearm and positioned
myself behind my bed, and waited to see if anyone would
come through my bedroom door.
I was VERY happy when the dude, ran out the FRONT door,
right through the bottom of my townhouse.
I CANNOT imagine the panic and additional danger I may
have been in if I did not have a firearm.
I'm happy to say that these days, I'm doing quite well,
and live in a nice and safe area in san diego
I still have my firearm, but it does not have any ammunition
and is locked in a safe box and hidden.
Why?
Because the chances of anything happening HERE is
so low that I do not feel like I need a firearm in this area.
But here is the important point...
THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD ***EVER*** tell those poor people
in that neighborhood they are NOT allowed to own firearms,
knowing full and well that the scumbags living right next
door all have them.
Liberty, without the means to defend it, is nothing more than lip service.
peace
axeman
I lived in inner city Baltimore maryland while scraping
through college, living off of top ramen
The local drug dealer lived 2 doors down from me.
Lots of gun shells in the park and needles, etc...
The ghetto bird flew around at night about once a month.
NOT a safe place to live.
My roommates and I ALL had firearms.
One night....the ghetto bird was out looking for someone.
I lived in a 2 story row house.
Im a SUPER LIGHT sleeper and was already awake from
the chopper flying around.
My roommates were not there that night. I was alone.
On the bottom floor I heard the back door slide open after
being popped off its cheap ass rail
Dude... I was FREAKED. I grabbed my firearm and positioned
myself behind my bed, and waited to see if anyone would
come through my bedroom door.
I was VERY happy when the dude, ran out the FRONT door,
right through the bottom of my townhouse.
I CANNOT imagine the panic and additional danger I may
have been in if I did not have a firearm.
I'm happy to say that these days, I'm doing quite well,
and live in a nice and safe area in san diego
I still have my firearm, but it does not have any ammunition
and is locked in a safe box and hidden.
Why?
Because the chances of anything happening HERE is
so low that I do not feel like I need a firearm in this area.
But here is the important point...
THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD ***EVER*** tell those poor people
in that neighborhood they are NOT allowed to own firearms,
knowing full and well that the scumbags living right next
door all have them.
Liberty, without the means to defend it, is nothing more than lip service.
peace
axeman
I still can't decide on the gun issue. On a personal note, I think if i owned a gun I would be more inclined to actually use it or consider using it if I were to get into a confrontation. Do we really own guns because we are afraid of break-ins? What use are all those security systems? With stricter gun laws would it be tougher for criminals to have access to guns? Would the crime rate increase if everyone had access to guns?
I think this issue like many other issues really explains the differences between the republicans and democrats very well. Where as the republicans believe in personal responsibility and accountability for one's actions, democrats believe you are too stupid or too ignorant to be responsible. They don't even want to give you that option. Also democrats refuse to want to accept the bigger issue. Family values. Now I am not saying that if you grow up in a good family and you learn right from wrong that you will never abuse your gun privileges. But I do believe that family does play a very large role in this issue. Having a father who teaches your right from wrong and shows you how to responsibly own and use a gun makes all the difference in the world. Of course liberals get all upset when you start talking about family values and personal responsibility. They want to blame everything on the gun. Like we are wild animals with no controls over our actions. That is complete BS. Like many people have mentioned earlier, the criminals will always have guns. What do you think gangsters buy rifles at Walmart? LOL. Trust me, the kind of guns they buy are not sold in stores. They are very sophisticated and modified. It would scare the shit out of you if you knew what was floating around on the street. So by making it hard for regular citizens to own a guy you are only making it easier for criminals. But if you don't want to own a gun why don't you hang a sign outside your home that says no gun in this home. Give it a couple of weeks and report back to us. I'm guessing you will have some very unfriendly visitors.
"On a personal note, I think if i owned a gun I would be more inclined to actually use it or consider using it if I were to get into a confrontation."
Then don't get a gun.
"Do we really own guns because we are afraid of break-ins? "
For some people, yes. In my college days, a DEFINITE yes.
If I were allowed to carry concealed, I would have done
that also in my neighborhood.
"What use are all those security systems?"
Security systems are a joke when it comes to violent criminals.
HEY BUDDY! STOP PLUNGING THAT KNIFE INTO MY CHEST!
CAN'T YOU HEAR MY HOME ALARM SYSTEM GOING OFF?!?!?!
"With stricter gun laws would it be tougher for criminals to have access to guns?"
DC and NYC prove this is not the case.
Criminals always have access to guns, drugs, whatever...
Laws only affect the law biding ( aka...the non-criminal).
"Would the crime rate increase if everyone had access to guns? "
Not according to the stats.
There are also many examples which show crime reduction
when cary conceal laws are passed. For example:
In 1987, Florida enacted a "shall issue" RTC law, now the framework for similar laws and legislative proposals in other states. RTC was supported by the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement, Florida Sheriffs Assn., Florida Police Chiefs Assn., and other law enforcement groups. Opponents waged a fear-based campaign, claiming crime would increase if law-abiding citizens carried guns. Anti-gun politicians predicted Florida would become the "GUNshine State." The news media forecast vigilante justice and "Wild West" shootouts on every corner. One newspaper said "(A) pistol-packing citizenry will mean itchier trigger fingers. . . . South Florida's climate of smoldering fear would flash like napalm when every stranger totes a piece, and every mental snap in traffic could lead to the crack of gunfire." The predictions were proven false. From the inception of Florida's RTC law through 1991, Florida's homicide rate decreased 20%, while the U.S. rate increased 15%. Beginning in 1992, homicide began decreasing nationally while continuing to decrease in Florida. Only 0.02% of Florida carry permits are revoked because of firearm crimes committed by license holders. Florida Licensing Division Director, John Russi, said, "When you compare that to the number of licenses that were issued, that's very small." The gun crime rate among permit holders is a fraction of the rate for the state as a whole. (FBI) Additionally, Director Russi stated that there was "no record of any accidents or incidents from a lack of training" and that "Florida's concealed weapon law has been very successful. All major law enforcement groups supported the original legislation and in the eight years the program has been in place, none of these groups has requested any changes....(S)one of the opponents of concealed weapon legislation in 1987 now admit the program has not created the problems many predicted." (Testimony before the Michigan House of Representatives Judiciary Committee, 12/5/95.)
peace
axeman
Then don't get a gun.
"Do we really own guns because we are afraid of break-ins? "
For some people, yes. In my college days, a DEFINITE yes.
If I were allowed to carry concealed, I would have done
that also in my neighborhood.
"What use are all those security systems?"
Security systems are a joke when it comes to violent criminals.
HEY BUDDY! STOP PLUNGING THAT KNIFE INTO MY CHEST!
CAN'T YOU HEAR MY HOME ALARM SYSTEM GOING OFF?!?!?!
"With stricter gun laws would it be tougher for criminals to have access to guns?"
DC and NYC prove this is not the case.
Criminals always have access to guns, drugs, whatever...
Laws only affect the law biding ( aka...the non-criminal).
"Would the crime rate increase if everyone had access to guns? "
Not according to the stats.
There are also many examples which show crime reduction
when cary conceal laws are passed. For example:
In 1987, Florida enacted a "shall issue" RTC law, now the framework for similar laws and legislative proposals in other states. RTC was supported by the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement, Florida Sheriffs Assn., Florida Police Chiefs Assn., and other law enforcement groups. Opponents waged a fear-based campaign, claiming crime would increase if law-abiding citizens carried guns. Anti-gun politicians predicted Florida would become the "GUNshine State." The news media forecast vigilante justice and "Wild West" shootouts on every corner. One newspaper said "(A) pistol-packing citizenry will mean itchier trigger fingers. . . . South Florida's climate of smoldering fear would flash like napalm when every stranger totes a piece, and every mental snap in traffic could lead to the crack of gunfire." The predictions were proven false. From the inception of Florida's RTC law through 1991, Florida's homicide rate decreased 20%, while the U.S. rate increased 15%. Beginning in 1992, homicide began decreasing nationally while continuing to decrease in Florida. Only 0.02% of Florida carry permits are revoked because of firearm crimes committed by license holders. Florida Licensing Division Director, John Russi, said, "When you compare that to the number of licenses that were issued, that's very small." The gun crime rate among permit holders is a fraction of the rate for the state as a whole. (FBI) Additionally, Director Russi stated that there was "no record of any accidents or incidents from a lack of training" and that "Florida's concealed weapon law has been very successful. All major law enforcement groups supported the original legislation and in the eight years the program has been in place, none of these groups has requested any changes....(S)one of the opponents of concealed weapon legislation in 1987 now admit the program has not created the problems many predicted." (Testimony before the Michigan House of Representatives Judiciary Committee, 12/5/95.)
peace
axeman