smack,
it has been a long time since i saw the moore flick, but i could have swore its premise was that canada has way less crime, it showed people not locking their doors, etc. or does my memory fail me ??
surfer
"Bowling for Columbine"
- Thread starter nitro
- Start date
smack,
it has been a long time since i saw the moore flick, but i could have swore its premise was that canada has way less crime, it showed people not locking their doors, etc. or does my memory fail me ??
surfer
Surf,
True... that was in Windsor right across the river from Detroit.
I lock up when I go out but,most people I know wouldn't lock up the house unless it was going to be empty,this is less tru in the city and more true in the country as you might expect.
I think it is safe to say many more people are victims of violent crimes involving guns in California than Canada and they have roughly the same population.
This is a guess on my part and I have no data to back it up.
All I know is I feel perfectly safe to practise road rage without the fear of being shot.
True... that was in Windsor right across the river from Detroit.
I lock up when I go out but,most people I know wouldn't lock up the house unless it was going to be empty,this is less tru in the city and more true in the country as you might expect.
I think it is safe to say many more people are victims of violent crimes involving guns in California than Canada and they have roughly the same population.
This is a guess on my part and I have no data to back it up.
All I know is I feel perfectly safe to practise road rage without the fear of being shot.
My man Pabst is takin a shot here (no pun intended) at my's people, but yea, even The Answer been caught packin' a piece.
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Pabst
Elite Member
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1029
09-02-03 05:35 AM
No prejudice or racism intended, just facts. In NYC, Chicago, and most other Northern U.S. cities the homicide rate among whites is about on par with major European cities. Here in the Chicagoland area only about a dozen of 500 murder arrests in any given year are of non-hispanic whites. As far as a white shooting ala' Columbine.... hardly limited to the U.S. Do those smug Canadians forget the nut in Montreal who shot and killed a dozen or so female classmates at his University several years ago. Also mass murders in the last decade, a City Hall in suburban Paris, school shooting in rural Germany, 20 grammar school children murdered by a weirdo in the U.K.
To misquote Al Franken (another moron) "Michael Moore is a big fat idiot".
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Pabst
Elite Member
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1029
09-02-03 05:35 AM
No prejudice or racism intended, just facts. In NYC, Chicago, and most other Northern U.S. cities the homicide rate among whites is about on par with major European cities. Here in the Chicagoland area only about a dozen of 500 murder arrests in any given year are of non-hispanic whites. As far as a white shooting ala' Columbine.... hardly limited to the U.S. Do those smug Canadians forget the nut in Montreal who shot and killed a dozen or so female classmates at his University several years ago. Also mass murders in the last decade, a City Hall in suburban Paris, school shooting in rural Germany, 20 grammar school children murdered by a weirdo in the U.K.
To misquote Al Franken (another moron) "Michael Moore is a big fat idiot".
Moore's documentary was not very well done because
he started with a CONCLUSION that guns are bad.
If you left out his personal conclusions, it would have
been pretty good.
But when you splice things together like columbine,
followed by Heston saying "from my dead cold hands",
it's quite clear what garbage it is.
Leaving Moore's biased garbage aside, all his movie showed
me was that Americans are culturally violent.
The swiss are armed to the teeth and they do NOT have
the kind of gun crime we have here, and no mass school slaughters.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd061099b.html
About 50K a year die in auto accidents, we dont outlaw cars.
One of the highest killers among children is
1) swimming pools
2) Driving with their PARENTS
#1 is not essential and we still ALLOW it.
So how about guns?
For the anti-guners... realize that guns are used defensively
over 2.5 million times a year, and by banning them
from citizens and not criminals (since they wont obey your
new gun laws anyway), you will effectively CAUSE the
deaths of some percentage of those 2.5 million people each year.
On the high end, polling shows up to 3.6 MILLION defensive uses.
Even if just a small percentage of these defensive uses
led to a life saved, it far outweighs lives lost due to accidents.
Compare gun accidents to other accidents. Pretty damn low.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvacci.html
Want to KILL far more people than you save from gun accidents?
Vote for a gun bans, and embolden armed criminals.
Do your homework people. Look at the scientific studies
surrounding guns and you will NOT be able to conclude that
gun bans are a good idea in the US.
Dont turn the citizens in SHEEP.
peace
axeman
he started with a CONCLUSION that guns are bad.
If you left out his personal conclusions, it would have
been pretty good.
But when you splice things together like columbine,
followed by Heston saying "from my dead cold hands",
it's quite clear what garbage it is.
Leaving Moore's biased garbage aside, all his movie showed
me was that Americans are culturally violent.
The swiss are armed to the teeth and they do NOT have
the kind of gun crime we have here, and no mass school slaughters.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd061099b.html
About 50K a year die in auto accidents, we dont outlaw cars.
One of the highest killers among children is
1) swimming pools
2) Driving with their PARENTS
#1 is not essential and we still ALLOW it.
So how about guns?
For the anti-guners... realize that guns are used defensively
over 2.5 million times a year, and by banning them
from citizens and not criminals (since they wont obey your
new gun laws anyway), you will effectively CAUSE the
deaths of some percentage of those 2.5 million people each year.
On the high end, polling shows up to 3.6 MILLION defensive uses.
Even if just a small percentage of these defensive uses
led to a life saved, it far outweighs lives lost due to accidents.
Compare gun accidents to other accidents. Pretty damn low.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvacci.html
Want to KILL far more people than you save from gun accidents?
Vote for a gun bans, and embolden armed criminals.
Do your homework people. Look at the scientific studies
surrounding guns and you will NOT be able to conclude that
gun bans are a good idea in the US.
Dont turn the citizens in SHEEP.
peace
axeman
as usual, the great axeman came in and DESTROYED the arguments of the irrational. axeman, will you run for president, please?
btw, i'm not surprised science revealed the truth!
p. s. watch out for falling when you're 75+! http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvacci.html
Lescor,
I've lived in several different countries and traveled many more...
I have close friends that have lived or traveled extensively in other countries I've never been too...
Violent death by gunfire is NOT rare in most other countries.
Violent crime is everywhere in the world and it doesn't need to be via gunfire nor on the evening news.
Also...I've seen the movie (I liked it). However, Mr. Moore failed to mentioned some interesting facts when comparing crime in the U.S. to other countries...I'm not sure if he intentionally did such.
In fact...its not just Mr. Moore that fails to mention certain facts (stats)...many government agencies do it, many world organizations do it even many college universities don't tell the facts about crime at their university...
Heck...even families hide sex crimes (even violent crimes) within their own families.
Therefore...don't assume just because you didn't hear about it nor seen it...that it is rare...
it's probably more common than you think.
My point is this...when it comes to violent crime stats...the U.S. may lead in some categories while lagging some countries in other categories.
What can we do about it?
All we can do is raise our children to teach them love, respect, morals and everything else thats needed so that they'll never commit a violent crime nor any crime against another life...
While hoping they themselves are never in the wrong place at the wrong time to become victims of violent crime.
Thus, eventhough I'm concern about what's occurring in the world because I've seen the worst with my own two eyes...
My contribution and obligation is to ensure my children don't grow up and contribute to this mess nor (hopefully) not become a victim of it...
nor I.
http://www.crime.org/do/Associates
http://www.tolerance.org
NihabaAshi
I think comparing guns to automobiles or swimming pools is a false analogy. I've heard axeman's argument many times before by others, and I am remain unpersuaded. Guns were conceived and are manufactured with the intent to maim or kill. Guns are a weapon.Cars and swimming pools are not. Webster says a weapon is 1)something used to injure, defeat or destroy 2)a means of contending against another.
Cars were never designed with this intent to inflict bodily harm. When a car kills, it is inadvertent, a byproduct of two conditions: great speed to satisfy its primary requirement --effcient transportation; and exceptional mass to protect occupants.
Cars and swimming pools are not devices manufactured with the expressed purpose to inflict bodily harm -- but guns are!
Economies (USA's & the Worlds) are now fundamentally dependent upon the "car", ie efficient transportation. To now suggest that outlawing guns is equivalent to outlawing cars is ludicrous. They are completely different things, and are not related in any way by intent, purpose or utility!
IMO guns (and the like) are despicable devices. They exist for one and only one very macabre reason (and we all know what that is). Society has a duty to protect its citizens from these types of dangerous devices and products, and in that interest and in the interest of my safety and my loved ones I believe we need TIGHT controls on gun ownership! MUCH TIGHTER than exist now!
Cars were never designed with this intent to inflict bodily harm. When a car kills, it is inadvertent, a byproduct of two conditions: great speed to satisfy its primary requirement --effcient transportation; and exceptional mass to protect occupants.
Cars and swimming pools are not devices manufactured with the expressed purpose to inflict bodily harm -- but guns are!
Economies (USA's & the Worlds) are now fundamentally dependent upon the "car", ie efficient transportation. To now suggest that outlawing guns is equivalent to outlawing cars is ludicrous. They are completely different things, and are not related in any way by intent, purpose or utility!
IMO guns (and the like) are despicable devices. They exist for one and only one very macabre reason (and we all know what that is). Society has a duty to protect its citizens from these types of dangerous devices and products, and in that interest and in the interest of my safety and my loved ones I believe we need TIGHT controls on gun ownership! MUCH TIGHTER than exist now!
I've heard this counter argument as well, and it is flawed.
Yes, guns are designed to kill.
But to kill who?
Your implication is that guns are designed to kill innocent people.
The fact is, guns are produced with the intent of things like:
1) Protecting society ( Police,etc )
2) National defense
3) Self defense
4) Sport shooting, hunting, etc
Should I also mention this country was FORMED via revolt
with firearms?
Cars are not meant to kill innocent lives, yet they do.
Drunk drivers anyone?
Guns are not meant to kill innocent lives either, yet they do.
The fact is, guns save far more innocent lives than they take.
It would seem that you are in favor of causing the deaths
of far more innocent lives, than we currently lose.
If you wish to vote for the death of the innocent, be
my guest. I shall vote for allowing the innocent to be able
to protect themselves, and save their own lives,
against the armed outlaws.
peace
axeman
Yes, guns are designed to kill.
But to kill who?
Your implication is that guns are designed to kill innocent people.
The fact is, guns are produced with the intent of things like:
1) Protecting society ( Police,etc )
2) National defense
3) Self defense
4) Sport shooting, hunting, etc
Should I also mention this country was FORMED via revolt
with firearms?
Cars are not meant to kill innocent lives, yet they do.
Drunk drivers anyone?
Guns are not meant to kill innocent lives either, yet they do.
The fact is, guns save far more innocent lives than they take.
It would seem that you are in favor of causing the deaths
of far more innocent lives, than we currently lose.
If you wish to vote for the death of the innocent, be
my guest. I shall vote for allowing the innocent to be able
to protect themselves, and save their own lives,
against the armed outlaws.
peace
axeman