Does the concept of independent study completely elude you?
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Boone Pickens:pumping His Own Energy Plan
- Thread starter dsq
- Start date
Does the concept of independent study completely elude you?
Quote from Hydroblunt:
My info is outdated, I stand corrected. It is 2cents/kwh as being adjusted for inflation of the 1.5cents/kwh from 1993.
I skimmed the article, it is ok, just very broad.
I don't just give out research like that. I spent a good amount of time reading various articles, discussion with people in the industry, as well as a tiny bit of hands on experience. However, you can find information without much problem. Look up various feedback & research on Denmark's program, FPL Energy's projects in Pennsylvania and California's wind projects. There are organizations, mainly environmentalists & communities who have been working to stop & amend the current wind movement.
Some key points:
1. These are not the cute turbines you see in the ads. These are monster turbines, 200-300ft tall.
2. They are moving parts. Hence wear & tear.
3. They stand in the way of insects & birds. Use your imagination.
4. They make a lot of noise, mostly aerodynamic, which travels a lot of distance and has a lot of side effects on both humans & wildlife.
5. Wind patterns don't cater to our electric demand patterns.
As for Boone putting up $2billion out of the quoted $12 billion needed, that sounds like a very lucrative situation for him. He easily recovers the $2bn via tax credits. Either way, he is basically proposing a plan that transfers money from us to him to help his investments. Since he is filthy rich and seems to want to help so much, let him finance it all by himself. Let the funds go to those who actually need the capital.
He chose wind over other technologies because large wind projects are favored at the US Energy department. They seem to like em and provide heavy support for it. It's easier money to tap. Also, GE is big on turbines and has exercised their pull over the Energy department.
I don't see him throwing ANY support toward other technologies, and that alone sets off a big red flag.
I'm not trying to bash wind into the ground, it has its uses. But that plan is a pipedream at our expense. The natural gas stuff has good traction, but realistically, he might as well invest heavily in battery technology for electric cars if he wants to help.
Hydroblunt, you sir have your thumb on the pulse.
Good work.
Quote from Hydroblunt:I don't see him throwing ANY support toward other technologies, and that alone sets off a big red flag.
I'm not trying to bash wind into the ground, it has its uses. But that plan is a pipedream at our expense. The natural gas stuff has good traction, but realistically, he might as well invest heavily in battery technology for electric cars if he wants to help. [/B]
He might as well invest in a lot of things but he is at least investing in something. Basically his plan, if I understand it correctly, is for us to use natural gas for transportation and use wind, solar, and whatever else to supplement. That gets off FOREIGN oil. All the while we are developing more advanced solutions. The natural gas plan gives us time. Nothing more. Stop focusing so much on how much Boone Pickens makes. In fact, who cares if he makes a penny. He is however positioning himself with wind and if that makes him money that is fine with me. Something has to be done before we give all our money to foreigners.
Quote from harkm:
Stop focusing so much on how much Boone Pickens makes. In fact, who cares if he makes a penny.
Man, some of you simply don't comprehend what you read, if you read these posts carefully at all.
I will outline it one last time:
The point Hydroblunt and I continue to pound the table on is that we are opposed to taxpayers funding business ventures for billionaires. Forget what the project is or your own feeling about alternative energy, it is the principle of the previous sentence that concerns me.
Quote from BullAlert:
Man, some of you simply don't comprehend what you read, if you read these posts carefully at all.
I will outline it one last time:
The point Hydroblunt and I continue to pound the table on is that we are opposed to taxpayers funding business ventures for billionaires. Forget what the project is or your own feeling about alternative energy, it is the principle of the previous sentence that concerns me.
Who cares if taxpayers fund billionaires or anybody else if it gets the ball rolling? This is a problem that will probably take too long to solve unless the government(taxpayers) get involved.
Excellent Commentary All.......
If one wants to know about wind energy issues, one would want to study a country that has the most actual experience with it...
Denmark is the number 1 wind energy user in the world.....soon to reach over 20% of its energy needs....
From this link you can read about some of Denmark's experiences....
http://www.windpower.org/en/core.htm
........................................................................................
Financial issues
General Electric is certainly a reputable company and has done a study on the tax incentives to see if the incentives pay for themselves.....This was done this past June, 18, 2008....
18.06.2008 15:20
Tax Revenues from Wind Farms More Than Offset Tax Incentive, GE Study Estimates
GE (News/Aktienkurs) Energy Financial Services, a unit of GE (NYSE: GE), unveiled today a study estimating that a federal tax incentive set to expire Dec. 31 for wind energy projects more than pays for itself through tax revenues from the projects' income, vendors' profits and individual workers' wages. The study - released at the American Council on Renewable Energy's Renewable Energy Finance Forum in New York - estimated that wind farms built in 2007, supported by the production tax credit, carry a net present value benefit to the US Treasury of $250 million.
âCongress is debating how to pay for the wind tax credits perhaps without realizing that, over time, wind farms pump more money into the US Treasury and state and local coffers than they take out,â Kevin Walsh, Managing Director of renewable energy at GE Energy Financial Services, said at the conference today. âOur study shows that the wind farms more than pay for themselves through existing tax revenues, so it's time to renew the incentives immediately.âÂ
The production tax credit for wind - as well as similar incentives for solar and other renewable energy sources - has expired three times in the past nine years, each time causing a 76-90 percent drop in installed capacity from the previous year. The most recent attempt to renew the incentive failed earlier this month in a US Senate vote that centered on how to offset the cost of the production tax credit with tax revenues.
"Too often, politics, rather than economics, has shaped the debate about extending the production tax credit," said Michael Eckhart, President of the American Council on Renewable Energy. "GE's new study identifying additional economic benefits of the wind industry should bring all parties together, all supporting a proposition that is good for the environment, good for the economy, and even good for the federal treasury."
According to the study by GE Energy Financial Services, wind projects that went into operation last year generate federal income tax revenues from the projects, individual workers' wages, vendors' profits, and land leases. And they also provide federal tax revenue after 10 years, when the production tax credits expire. In addition to those federal tax revenues, the wind projects generate an estimated $6 million per year in local property taxes, $15 million annually in state income taxes on wages and profits during construction and $1.5 million per year in taxes while operating. Using a model developed by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, wind farms built in 2007 in the United States created more than 17,000 construction-related jobs and 1,600 long-term operations-related jobs. In addition, the new wind farms provided major environmental benefits, avoiding approximately 10 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions annually, equivalent to taking 1.8 million cars off the road, GE estimates. The GE study does not analyze the wind industry's economic effects on other energy sectors.
âCongress' repeated failure to act could derail the wind energy industry at the worst possible time for the economy, placing 76,000 jobs and more than $11.5 billion in investment at risk,â said Randall Swisher, Executive Director of the American Wind Energy Association.
Wind makes up 80 percent of GE Energy Financial Services' more than $3 billion renewable energy portfolio. The GE unit's total US wind equity portfolio includes 34 farms that span 13 states and produce 3,550 megawatts of energyââ enough to power approximately 1 million US homes. The company plans to invest $6 billion in renewable energy projects by 2010, including wind, solar, biomass, hydro and geothermal power generation.
For the full study, please visit:
http://www.geenergyfinancialservices.com/press_room/PTC_release.asp
About GE Energy Financial Services
GE Energy Financial Services' 350 experts invest globally with a long-term view, backed by the best of GE's technical know-how and financial strength, across the capital spectrum and the energy and water industries, to help their customers and GE grow. With $19 billion in assets, GE Energy Financial Services, based in Stamford, Connecticut, invests more than $5 billion annually in two of the world's most capital-intensive industries, energy and water. In renewable energy, GE Energy Financial Services is growing its portfolio of more than $3 billion in assets in wind, solar, biomass, hydro and geothermal power. For more information, visit www.geenergyfinancialservices.com.
About GE
GE (NYSE: GE) is Imagination at Work -- a diversified technology, media and financial services company focused on solving some of the world's toughest problems. With products and services ranging from aircraft engines, power generation, water processing and security technology to medical imaging, business and consumer financing, media content and advanced materials, GE serves customers in more than 100 countries and employs more than 300,000 people worldwide. For more information, visit www.ge.com.
Editor's Note:
Kevin Walsh, Managing Director of renewable energy at GE Energy Financial Services, Michael Eckhart, President of the American Council on Renewable Energy and Randall Swisher, Executive Director of the American Wind Energy Association, will hold a press conference to discuss the GE wind industry economic benefits study at 11:30 am EDT in the West Foyer of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York. RSVP to: http://www.reffwallstreet.com/gepress. Telephone dial-in to the press conference: US and Canada - 866-682-6100, International Callers - 201-499-0416.
TV news B-roll of a wind farm, from general archives, is available at: http://www.geenergyfinancialservices.com/RenewablesInvestments/
If one wants to know about wind energy issues, one would want to study a country that has the most actual experience with it...
Denmark is the number 1 wind energy user in the world.....soon to reach over 20% of its energy needs....
From this link you can read about some of Denmark's experiences....
http://www.windpower.org/en/core.htm
........................................................................................
Financial issues
General Electric is certainly a reputable company and has done a study on the tax incentives to see if the incentives pay for themselves.....This was done this past June, 18, 2008....
18.06.2008 15:20
Tax Revenues from Wind Farms More Than Offset Tax Incentive, GE Study Estimates
GE (News/Aktienkurs) Energy Financial Services, a unit of GE (NYSE: GE), unveiled today a study estimating that a federal tax incentive set to expire Dec. 31 for wind energy projects more than pays for itself through tax revenues from the projects' income, vendors' profits and individual workers' wages. The study - released at the American Council on Renewable Energy's Renewable Energy Finance Forum in New York - estimated that wind farms built in 2007, supported by the production tax credit, carry a net present value benefit to the US Treasury of $250 million.
âCongress is debating how to pay for the wind tax credits perhaps without realizing that, over time, wind farms pump more money into the US Treasury and state and local coffers than they take out,â Kevin Walsh, Managing Director of renewable energy at GE Energy Financial Services, said at the conference today. âOur study shows that the wind farms more than pay for themselves through existing tax revenues, so it's time to renew the incentives immediately.âÂ
The production tax credit for wind - as well as similar incentives for solar and other renewable energy sources - has expired three times in the past nine years, each time causing a 76-90 percent drop in installed capacity from the previous year. The most recent attempt to renew the incentive failed earlier this month in a US Senate vote that centered on how to offset the cost of the production tax credit with tax revenues.
"Too often, politics, rather than economics, has shaped the debate about extending the production tax credit," said Michael Eckhart, President of the American Council on Renewable Energy. "GE's new study identifying additional economic benefits of the wind industry should bring all parties together, all supporting a proposition that is good for the environment, good for the economy, and even good for the federal treasury."
According to the study by GE Energy Financial Services, wind projects that went into operation last year generate federal income tax revenues from the projects, individual workers' wages, vendors' profits, and land leases. And they also provide federal tax revenue after 10 years, when the production tax credits expire. In addition to those federal tax revenues, the wind projects generate an estimated $6 million per year in local property taxes, $15 million annually in state income taxes on wages and profits during construction and $1.5 million per year in taxes while operating. Using a model developed by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, wind farms built in 2007 in the United States created more than 17,000 construction-related jobs and 1,600 long-term operations-related jobs. In addition, the new wind farms provided major environmental benefits, avoiding approximately 10 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions annually, equivalent to taking 1.8 million cars off the road, GE estimates. The GE study does not analyze the wind industry's economic effects on other energy sectors.
âCongress' repeated failure to act could derail the wind energy industry at the worst possible time for the economy, placing 76,000 jobs and more than $11.5 billion in investment at risk,â said Randall Swisher, Executive Director of the American Wind Energy Association.
Wind makes up 80 percent of GE Energy Financial Services' more than $3 billion renewable energy portfolio. The GE unit's total US wind equity portfolio includes 34 farms that span 13 states and produce 3,550 megawatts of energyââ enough to power approximately 1 million US homes. The company plans to invest $6 billion in renewable energy projects by 2010, including wind, solar, biomass, hydro and geothermal power generation.
For the full study, please visit:
http://www.geenergyfinancialservices.com/press_room/PTC_release.asp
About GE Energy Financial Services
GE Energy Financial Services' 350 experts invest globally with a long-term view, backed by the best of GE's technical know-how and financial strength, across the capital spectrum and the energy and water industries, to help their customers and GE grow. With $19 billion in assets, GE Energy Financial Services, based in Stamford, Connecticut, invests more than $5 billion annually in two of the world's most capital-intensive industries, energy and water. In renewable energy, GE Energy Financial Services is growing its portfolio of more than $3 billion in assets in wind, solar, biomass, hydro and geothermal power. For more information, visit www.geenergyfinancialservices.com.
About GE
GE (NYSE: GE) is Imagination at Work -- a diversified technology, media and financial services company focused on solving some of the world's toughest problems. With products and services ranging from aircraft engines, power generation, water processing and security technology to medical imaging, business and consumer financing, media content and advanced materials, GE serves customers in more than 100 countries and employs more than 300,000 people worldwide. For more information, visit www.ge.com.
Editor's Note:
Kevin Walsh, Managing Director of renewable energy at GE Energy Financial Services, Michael Eckhart, President of the American Council on Renewable Energy and Randall Swisher, Executive Director of the American Wind Energy Association, will hold a press conference to discuss the GE wind industry economic benefits study at 11:30 am EDT in the West Foyer of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York. RSVP to: http://www.reffwallstreet.com/gepress. Telephone dial-in to the press conference: US and Canada - 866-682-6100, International Callers - 201-499-0416.
TV news B-roll of a wind farm, from general archives, is available at: http://www.geenergyfinancialservices.com/RenewablesInvestments/
Quote from harkm:
Who cares if taxpayers fund billionaires or anybody else if it gets the ball rolling? This is a problem that will probably take too long to solve unless the government(taxpayers) get involved.
Then that is a totally different problem. Let's get the dirtbags out of congress and replace them with people who will accomplish something for us. We are already paying for hundreds of them via salary and perqs. What are we getting?
I happen to care, because I don't want well-spoken salemen like T.Bone slicktalking the idiots in DC out of your money and mine. The fact is they are not intelligent enough to understand the issue. Also, where money and senators meet, there is corruption.
Yes the concept of Independent Research does elude you. The Org consists of members who benefit directly from the Danish wind project by getting the contracts.