Blame student loans on.....

[Spaghetti Code]

Using debt to finance education seems to be the mistake here. Debt is too low risk to represent what is being bought. I wish for a world where students sell a portion of their future income to investors, so that incentives are aligned. If both parties profit, and both want the student to be employed, it would be a better system.

 

[bone]

You completely missed. Technology benefits all of society. And that infrastructure you’re talking about requires Degreed and Licensed Engineers - not a Communications Major.

This is the typical one liner argument against free education reflective of how Americans are ultimately all self-absorbed. If it doesn't benefit me, I don't want to pay for it. No sense of community, of a society of people with common goals and interests. Our infrastructure is falling apart? I don't care, I'll just buy a bigger truck but I ain't paying for the roads to be fixed, except maybe the one leading to my house....
Why is free education subject to debate but military spending isn't?
I read @tango29 story about generational loan burdens and, while I can appreciate the lessons on financial responsibility, it is a masterful adjustment to an obligation that shouldn't exist in the first place, because it perpetuates discriminatory practices against those who may not have the same solid middle class upbringing, parents who can contribute to their kids education, parents who have to skills to teach their kids the importance of money management, parents who went to college and thus socialize their kids into going to college. These are the fine expectations of a middle class mindset but not representative of so many kids who want to go to college but simply cannot afford the tuition.
The cost of education in the US is probably the highest in the world and we naturally infer that the higher the cost, the better the education. Understand that this is strictly an American perception because the great universities of the world are free to their nationals who attend because their exam results opened the doors to those institutions of higher learning. European parents and kids of all social levels await exam results with great anxiety because they determine which universities will open their doors to them.
The top 10% Americans know that their kids aren't necessarily the smartest and the financial barrier is a way to filter their kids in while keeping smart but less wealthy kids out.

 

[VicBee]

You completely missed. Technology benefits all of society. And that infrastructure you’re talking about requires Degreed and Licensed Engineers - not a Communications Major.

I understand that from your perspective tech and finance and engineering are "needed" skills. I also do, but I'm less judgemental about what kids study because I strongly believe that diversity is what will help us solve some of the great challenges of humanity, not homogeneity. We need scientists with history or philosophy or art backgrounds. We need psychologists with technology backgrounds, we need to challenge our channeled answers to problems and recognize their complexities from various perspectives before they become new problems. Those licensed engineers build roads, where those roads and bridges go isn't an engineering question; they are also technical, social, political, financial and even perhaps philosophical.

 

[piezoe]

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Things should be affordable and the only way that can happen is if the market sets prices. No Federal Reserve of education, or healthcare, or housing needed.

Possibly you are wishing for things to be more simple than is possible. There are two kinds of free markets: One is a market where everyone is free to compete on a level playing field; the other is a market free from government involvement, i.e., government adopts a laissez faire attitude toward business. The first is possible only with government involvement, and requires a rare, perhaps fictional, kind of government that serves only the people and neither corporations nor businesses ; the second quickly deteriorates into Cartels and Monopolies. Which of these two kinds of "Free Markets" are you wishing for?

 

[piezoe]

Why should the US Taxpayers pay for degrees that have quite limited employment value?

This question really gets into some esoteric shit. There are answers, but their discussion is probably beyond the scope of ET forums. Perhaps answers to your question are best relegated to articles in the Atlantic Monthly and such...

 

[Overnight]

You completely missed. Technology benefits all of society. And that infrastructure you’re talking about requires Degreed and Licensed Engineers - not a Communications Major.

Notice how the underlined by Bone is not an opinion, but a statement of fact.

Bone has gone Borg...

 

[Hellbringer]

Any economic, political, social decisions in the global sense of the word have both positive and negative consequences - it was. is. and will be. One should not perceive everything as if there are no halftones or shades.
This is what allows for a lot of debate and argument and new and unconventional solutions. I am definitely convinced of that.
Because it is impossible to take into account all opinions and all consequences at once, you always have to make certain sacrifices that really matter.
We haven't really been there and we haven't made those decisions, so we probably have no idea how difficult it is and how serious it really is.

 

[athlonmank8]

true of course. But the side effect is that cost of tuition became insane so you have no choice to pay more.

The colleges have bloated 4-year programs too. We could be finishing in 2 to 3 years if it weren't for worthless general education credits.

You also have the choice to find a cheaper in-state school. Not a fancy D-1. Two years of community college where the credits will transfer. It's not like there aren't cheaper options. People just don't want to do it for obvious reasons

The smaller schools are plenty affordable, but people would rather rack up debt on something fun and cool and then pawn it off on someone else.

 

[athlonmank8]

Education should be free, from kindergarten to PhD from state universities, which are subsidized by taxpayers. Education is the foundational wealth of a nation, the greatest elevator to success for all who pursue higher education regardless of social status.
America's 20th century post war attraction brain drained the world's nations of their educated, who were key making America great and dominant in most scientific and engineering endeavors. This created at least 2 unfortunate side effects; 1. Other countries expanded their resources educating their workforce who then left for a better life in America. 2. America failed to see the value of having a homegrown highly educated workforce. Corporations and small businesses needed a large labor force and the emphasis was on getting a job out of high school. It's also during that time that education was devalued, as good paying jobs were plentiful and America was the happy go lucky nation, the envy of the world.

The 21st century and advent of computer tech reversed the trend. Nations in Europe and Asia worked hard and succeeded in becoming competitive, wealthier and able to offer a bright future to their educated. Engineers and scientists now had options and many stayed home to further increase their nation's competitive edge. Universities learned from America's education model, who had mastered the art of branding and recognition, and started devoting budgets to marketing and branding for their own nationals to study and work at home, but also to attract paying students from other nations to help pay for these new budgets.
Today, the education business is fiercely competitive globally and governments have stepped in to offer foreign students incentives to study in their countries, from financial subsidies to work visas upon graduation. Universities have set up satellite campuses abroad and partnered with various prestigious universities to further attract paying students.
The dramatic events in America over the last 10 years, the vocal rejection of foreigners and nationalist rhetoric, is further eroding students willingness to study in America and further straining the pay to play model that had stood since the 1950s. Foreign prestigious universities continue to offer far less costly alternatives while US universities are facing impossible challenges attracting the best and brightest while raising fees. Those most affected are American students unable to afford university without going into debt, which has reached crisis levels today. This doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.

Everything should be free. We can just live in a fairytale.

 

[newwurldmn]

Everything should be free. We can just live in a fairytale.

Community college should be free.