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Black Monday
- Thread starter bond_trad3r_II
- Start date
What also pushed EUR higher was the fact that many US funds sold their european equities and removed their currency hedges in the process.
Wouldn't that be flat because they would also sell their long euros from the cash they raised by selling the stocks? And shouldn't those funds be holding their hedges until settlement (I don't know if Europe is T+1 or T+3).
Ah we have a little Brit hating the Euro , Brussels , Germany, and everything Germany stands for. Well that I am afraid nobody can help you with, you need to deal with that yourself. After all your political representatives promised a referendum so please make use of it and if the majority of your countrymen like to be out of Europe then that is what is gonna happen. But do not make the mistake for one second thinking that Europe cannot function without the UK. And above keep in mind this I'd one of the grandest experiments and has never been tried before. Mistakes are bound to happen but fact is that this union has existed successfully for much longer than anyone imagined or dreamed abut.
How do you know what the people of those nations want? Refurendums are a rare thing in this system unless you give the wrong answer then all of a sudden you are given two. Its all good and well giving greece a verbal kicking now but their ways of being default and financial history WAS NO SECRET. The greed of the eu political class vacumed them up with as many nations as possible in pursuit of power, in the full knowledge that it was not even close to an optimum currency area and the mechanisms needed to keep imbalances at bay were not in place, to them the issues that were to come from this were just further chances for deeper intergration which whatever merkel happens to think is a bad thing, she has no mandate to do it, the uk voted on a trade agreement not a political union and a federal system.
Comparing the eu to the states is laughable and thats the problem you have when looking in, we are not different states we are differnet countrys, nationalitys, cultures, we are never ever going to have the same structure as the states , the first country to leave and prosper will be followed by more , the eu was meant to unite it has failed, you dont understand the cultural issues and by the looks of it you never will, to you its just straight up economics and lost generations are numbers...
And stop taking me out of context. I never said the Eu is like the US. The example holds and I stand behind it: there are different dialects spoken in different US states, some have huge Spanish speaking populations others none, cultures could not be more different between Florida and Maine. States assess state taxes and are granted the right to impose certain state laws. States run their own budgets , have a state specific legal system and legal procedures. I think it is a very fair comparison in terms of economic viability between a pure federal system and a union system.
Nobody in Europe wants to melt or merge cultures, languages, customs. But I understand where the worries in the UK are coming from. 75 years after the Isle would have been beaten hands down by Germany without American aid is still not enough to forgive and forget. Old Resentments die hard.
Nobody in Europe wants to melt or merge cultures, languages, customs. But I understand where the worries in the UK are coming from. 75 years after the Isle would have been beaten hands down by Germany without American aid is still not enough to forgive and forget. Old Resentments die hard.
How do you know what the people of those nations want? Refurendums are a rare thing in this system unless you give the wrong answer then all of a sudden you are given two. Its all good and well giving greece a verbal kicking now but their ways of being default and financial history WAS NO SECRET. The greed of the eu political class vacumed them up with as many nations as possible in pursuit of power, in the full knowledge that it was not even close to an optimum currency area and the mechanisms needed to keep imbalances at bay were not in place, to them the issues that were to come from this were just further chances for deeper intergration which whatever merkel happens to think is a bad thing, she has no mandate to do it, the uk voted on a trade agreement not a political union and a federal system.
Comparing the eu to the states is laughable and thats the problem you have when looking in, we are not different states we are differnet countrys, nationalitys, cultures, we are never ever going to have the same structure as the states , the first country to leave and prosper will be followed by more , the eu was meant to unite it has failed, you dont understand the cultural issues and by the looks of it you never will, to you its just straight up economics and lost generations are numbers...
Well then why don't we just wait and see? According to you the Eu and Euro should disentigrate shortly and stop to exist. I happily take the other side of such bet. Greece will go through some very painful times one way or another. I don't think anyone will look at them as a positive example if they really leave the euro because outside the only hope Greece has is to sell itself out to Russia and China. I think German banks are much more tolerable than dictatorships and communist regimes.
And no, greece does not even deserve to be in the euro, hence my orioginal comment that the euro and eu are a joke.....
Ah we have a little Brit hating the Euro , Brussels , Germany, and everything Germany stands for. Well that I am afraid nobody can help you with, you need to deal with that yourself. After all your political representatives promised a referendum so please make use of it and if the majority of your countrymen like to be out of Europe then that is what is gonna happen. But do not make the mistake for one second thinking that Europe cannot function without the UK. And above keep in mind this I'd one of the grandest experiments and has never been tried before. Mistakes are bound to happen but fact is that this union has existed successfully for much longer than anyone imagined or dreamed abut.
A typical problem with the eu is displayed above, far from uniting europe the euro has caused an undeniable divide, at one end of the spectrum nations prosper at the other they suffer yet if one has criticisms of this they are labeled a “little brit” they must “hate the euro, germany and everything germany stands for” yet those with mere critisism get off easier than those who are actually suffering, locked into a currency union thats destroyed their standard of living, for they are thought of as “savages”... you are a bigot.
We do have a referendum approaching and not a single person I have disscussed it with has talked about its impact on the eu, its about britain and our future, its not about power and impact on others so that point is irrelevent yet its shocking to see the level of arrogance displayed by those at the heart of the eu who actually think europe could not function without it, they attribute everything from peace in europe and economic growth to the existance of the eu which is laughable, peace in europe exists because every right minded nation killed as many germans as possible, in two wars, europe would function just fine without the eu. The little brit comment has always been confusing, much of europe has suffered at the hands of communism, facism, nazism within just the last 100 years while britian has fallen to no such ill yet the grandchildren of those active in such regimes dare to mock the grandchildren of those who fought and defeated them because they desire a certain amount of control over their countrys future while the rest of europe is speeding towards a superstate? It boggles the mind...
As previously mention I do not hate the euro, I hate the mess its mismanagement has caused, I hate the denial and I hate the anything goes attitude, no matter how many suffer as long as the situation is faverable for germany. If the founding princibles were adered to it would have been a fruitful project and I would have respected it, greed and power came first and like all empires that try to bound people of different origin together they sow the seeds of their own destruction yet long before that happens they eu with germany at the core appear to be writing yours..good luck with the ftt...I bet the political class make you proud.
I love europe as a place and its peoples yet countless times I have even been called racist in the past because I disagree with the direction and results of an experiment forced onto its peoples, its bizzare.
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And stop taking me out of context. I never said the Eu is like the US. The example holds and I stand behind it: there are different dialects spoken in different US states, some have huge Spanish speaking populations others none, cultures could not be more different between Florida and Maine. States assess state taxes and are granted the right to impose certain state laws. States run their own budgets , have a state specific legal system and legal procedures. I think it is a very fair comparison in terms of economic viability between a pure federal system and a union system.
Nobody in Europe wants to melt or merge cultures, languages, customs. But I understand where the worries in the UK are coming from. 75 years after the Isle would have been beaten hands down by Germany without American aid is still not enough to forgive and forget. Old Resentments die hard.
Exactly, states are "granted the right" to impose certain state laws and run their own budgets but in europe the eu is granted the right to impose rules and is given a budget by nations, not states, when push comes to shove its never going to work. I like your little dig though its irrelevent to any one with real world expereince, if they were beaten hands down in a week or a multi year war that involved the entire world the """"""" put people in ovens, the cause for concern remains the same yet you need no cause for concern when it comes to maintaining sovereignty its something that needs to be protected in its natural right. I never said it is going to end soon, stop putting words in my mouth, I said the ever closer union requirement will bring about its end.
Really? I think the UK is the country in Europe that has maneuvered itself to the fringes from the very beginning. I do not recall that Germany made any if it's industries off topic whether it be coal, energy, farm sector, family owned businesses, technology, car industry. Everything was on the table. On the other hand the UK has one sector that it prospers from which is the financial industry in London. The UK has been displayed a colonial style protectionism from the outset and said it can talk about anything but it's crown jewels. So please inform any of us again how the UK has displayed a fair approach to negotiations and compromise in Europe. This is not just a German way of looking at things but is echoed by every European nation. You can't form meaningful and lasting relationships with such protective attitude. Or do you recall Thatcher and her attitude towards German reunification? She was a devil and pretty much openly expressed her wish for Germany to be a farming and backward oriented country forever. Thanks to German innovative spirit, hard working people, and intelligent Foresight by Russians and Americans the UK had to eventually give in and comply. Those are historical facts and not just my opinion. The truth is that Brits could and still cannot accept that their colonial power has become more and more meaningless over time and that the British pound has more or less become just another currency along the Swiss Franc and Swedish Kronor. How is this attitude of monopolizing past edges beneficial to forming a powerful union to enter the new millenium and to counter the US and Chinese economic powers? Now the UK stands aside isolated and can only salvage the damage by kissing up to China, being mute on human rights violations for the sake of artifical economic partnerships which are in effect more or less a dictate by China. London has become a breeding ground for extremists in Europe and welcomes those who made money by killing and extortion in Russia and other rogue nations. Even the financial sector in the UK is more than ever exposed to incalculable risks with its banks still holding vast amount of bad debt on its book while even Spanish banks exhibit much healthier balance sheets. Glaxo can only make money IN China by engaging on outright illegal sales tactiques for which it was now more or less banned from meaningful participation in the Chinese economy. Let's not even start talking about the energy and coal sectors in Britain, as Germany generates already more than 30% of its energy needs from green and sustainable sources. If there is a major bully in Europe then it is the UK and hardly German .
A typical problem with the eu is displayed above, far from uniting europe the euro has caused an undeniable divide, at one end of the spectrum nations prosper at the other they suffer yet if one has criticisms of this they are labeled a “little brit” they must “hate the euro, germany and everything germany stands for” yet those with mere critisism get off easier than those who are actually suffering, locked into a currency union thats destroyed their standard of living, for they are thought of as “savages”... you are a bigot.
We do have a referendum approaching and not a single person I have disscussed it with has talked about its impact on the eu, its about britain and our future, its not about power and impact on others so that point is irrelevent yet its shocking to see the level of arrogance displayed by those at the heart of the eu who actually think europe could not function without it, they attribute everything from peace in europe and economic growth to the existance of the eu which is laughable, peace in europe exists because every right minded nation killed as many germans as possible, in two wars, europe would function just fine without the eu. The little brit comment has always been confusing, much of europe has suffered at the hands of communism, facism, nazism within just the last 100 years while britian has fallen to no such ill yet the grandchildren of those active in such regimes dare to mock the grandchildren of those who fought and defeated them because they desire a certain amount of control over their countrys future while the rest of europe is speeding towards a superstate? It boggles the mind...
As previously mention I do not hate the euro, I hate the mess its mismanagement has caused, I hate the denial and I hate the anything goes attitude, no matter how many suffer as long as the situation is faverable for germany. If the founding princibles were adered to it would have been a fruitful project and I would have respected it, greed and power came first and like all empires that try to bound people of different origin together they sow the seeds of their own destruction yet long before that happens they eu with germany at the core appear to be writing yours..good luck with the ftt...I bet the political class make you proud.
I love europe as a place and its peoples yet countless times I have even been called racist in the past because I disagree with the direction and results of an experiment forced onto its peoples, its bizzare.
By the way nobody suffered because of the Euro. Nobody not even Greece. To the contrary. Greece was a backward oriented shit hole and so was Spain. Most nations have witnessed an immense improvement in living standards since they joined the union and euro currency. Else why do you think so many eastern block nations wanted to join. Not everything is perfect and burdens have to be shared. Greece has not done so but Germany certainly did it's part financially and in many other ways as well. Greece has over spent and indulged in inflated living standards that were not sustainable. Instead of gradually raising standards of living they became heavily indebted in order to finance their lavish parties. Unsustainable debt is ALWAYS and will ALWAYS be a choice and the choice of the debtor not the creditors. Nobody forced any nation into joining the euro and euro zone. Don't twist history buddy.
A typical problem with the eu is displayed above, far from uniting europe the euro has caused an undeniable divide, at one end of the spectrum nations prosper at the other they suffer yet if one has criticisms of this they are labeled a “little brit” they must “hate the euro, germany and everything germany stands for” yet those with mere critisism get off easier than those who are actually suffering, locked into a currency union thats destroyed their standard of living, for they are thought of as “savages”... you are a bigot.
We do have a referendum approaching and not a single person I have disscussed it with has talked about its impact on the eu, its about britain and our future, its not about power and impact on others so that point is irrelevent yet its shocking to see the level of arrogance displayed by those at the heart of the eu who actually think europe could not function without it, they attribute everything from peace in europe and economic growth to the existance of the eu which is laughable, peace in europe exists because every right minded nation killed as many germans as possible, in two wars, europe would function just fine without the eu. The little brit comment has always been confusing, much of europe has suffered at the hands of communism, facism, nazism within just the last 100 years while britian has fallen to no such ill yet the grandchildren of those active in such regimes dare to mock the grandchildren of those who fought and defeated them because they desire a certain amount of control over their countrys future while the rest of europe is speeding towards a superstate? It boggles the mind...
As previously mention I do not hate the euro, I hate the mess its mismanagement has caused, I hate the denial and I hate the anything goes attitude, no matter how many suffer as long as the situation is faverable for germany. If the founding princibles were adered to it would have been a fruitful project and I would have respected it, greed and power came first and like all empires that try to bound people of different origin together they sow the seeds of their own destruction yet long before that happens they eu with germany at the core appear to be writing yours..good luck with the ftt...I bet the political class make you proud.
I love europe as a place and its peoples yet countless times I have even been called racist in the past because I disagree with the direction and results of an experiment forced onto its peoples, its bizzare.
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Please do not make me laugh with your distorted history lesson. France was occupied, Russia would have been defeated and GB was shortly before being invaded and defeated with ground to ground missiles and an advanced nuclear program something GB was not even close to. If the US did not step in the UK would never have been a Victor and in effect it never was. Your country was liberated by the US. At least face up to historical facts not British anecdotes.
It is a blatant double standard to shut up and say nothing about Israel and it's occupation while your people in their 2nd and 3rd generation cannot even forgive Germany for its transgressions. I never justified the Holocaust and nobody in Germany does...there is no excuse and no justification. But wars are wars and some win some lose. Britian has not won WW2 , the US did and Germany accepted defeat and has rebuilt it's country and economy faster than almost any other nation in human history, aside maybe Japan. We have learned our lessons and moved on and have been a pacifist and peace loving nation ever since and greatly supported other lesser economically blessed European nations and hardly any other people in Europe consider themselves more European than Germans and show more solidarity with others in need. It is blasphemy to blame Germany for a tough stance on the Greek bully who holds everyone else hostage and blame the rest of the world for its cultural ills.
You can be proud of your nations achievements in the past and pacifist standpoint (which is actually anything but pacifist if you look at all the military interventions the UK has run and participated in Argentina and Iraq and numerous other parts of the world). I meanwhile am proud of my country's achievements TODAY and over the past 65 years and how my country has supported numerous African countries, attempted a brokered peace in the Middle East and shown solidarity in a European effort.
It is a blatant double standard to shut up and say nothing about Israel and it's occupation while your people in their 2nd and 3rd generation cannot even forgive Germany for its transgressions. I never justified the Holocaust and nobody in Germany does...there is no excuse and no justification. But wars are wars and some win some lose. Britian has not won WW2 , the US did and Germany accepted defeat and has rebuilt it's country and economy faster than almost any other nation in human history, aside maybe Japan. We have learned our lessons and moved on and have been a pacifist and peace loving nation ever since and greatly supported other lesser economically blessed European nations and hardly any other people in Europe consider themselves more European than Germans and show more solidarity with others in need. It is blasphemy to blame Germany for a tough stance on the Greek bully who holds everyone else hostage and blame the rest of the world for its cultural ills.
You can be proud of your nations achievements in the past and pacifist standpoint (which is actually anything but pacifist if you look at all the military interventions the UK has run and participated in Argentina and Iraq and numerous other parts of the world). I meanwhile am proud of my country's achievements TODAY and over the past 65 years and how my country has supported numerous African countries, attempted a brokered peace in the Middle East and shown solidarity in a European effort.
A typical problem with the eu is displayed above, far from uniting europe the euro has caused an undeniable divide, at one end of the spectrum nations prosper at the other they suffer yet if one has criticisms of this they are labeled a “little brit” they must “hate the euro, germany and everything germany stands for” yet those with mere critisism get off easier than those who are actually suffering, locked into a currency union thats destroyed their standard of living, for they are thought of as “savages”... you are a bigot.
We do have a referendum approaching and not a single person I have disscussed it with has talked about its impact on the eu, its about britain and our future, its not about power and impact on others so that point is irrelevent yet its shocking to see the level of arrogance displayed by those at the heart of the eu who actually think europe could not function without it, they attribute everything from peace in europe and economic growth to the existance of the eu which is laughable, peace in europe exists because every right minded nation killed as many germans as possible, in two wars, europe would function just fine without the eu. The little brit comment has always been confusing, much of europe has suffered at the hands of communism, facism, nazism within just the last 100 years while britian has fallen to no such ill yet the grandchildren of those active in such regimes dare to mock the grandchildren of those who fought and defeated them because they desire a certain amount of control over their countrys future while the rest of europe is speeding towards a superstate? It boggles the mind...
As previously mention I do not hate the euro, I hate the mess its mismanagement has caused, I hate the denial and I hate the anything goes attitude, no matter how many suffer as long as the situation is faverable for germany. If the founding princibles were adered to it would have been a fruitful project and I would have respected it, greed and power came first and like all empires that try to bound people of different origin together they sow the seeds of their own destruction yet long before that happens they eu with germany at the core appear to be writing yours..good luck with the ftt...I bet the political class make you proud.
I love europe as a place and its peoples yet countless times I have even been called racist in the past because I disagree with the direction and results of an experiment forced onto its peoples, its bizzare.
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