Reports of greece intending to take legal action to block the countrys ejection from the euro are popping up, euro & eu is a joke. The eu needs to unwind in the coming decade or its going to chcoke eveyr last peice of uniqueness & democracy from all involved, god help us if they ever get an army..
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Black Monday
- Thread starter bond_trad3r_II
- Start date
ah? That most Brits and Americans are Eurozone haters is apparently clear by now but how do you connect what Greece is trying to do with your opinion of Europe and the Euro to be a "joke"? I am afraid I do not follow your line of logic here.
That there are plenty of willing participants, even those who can work hard in exchange for assistance has been shown by Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and even those outside the Eurozone area such as Iceland.
Can you explain what your gripe is? Are you suggesting the lobbied interest in the US, supreme court gay marriage decision, lethal injection mess and supreme court shocker, apartheid and racial situation, confederate flag joke, huge divergence between rich and poor in the United States are less explosive than the rather controlled situation in Europe?
That there are plenty of willing participants, even those who can work hard in exchange for assistance has been shown by Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and even those outside the Eurozone area such as Iceland.
Can you explain what your gripe is? Are you suggesting the lobbied interest in the US, supreme court gay marriage decision, lethal injection mess and supreme court shocker, apartheid and racial situation, confederate flag joke, huge divergence between rich and poor in the United States are less explosive than the rather controlled situation in Europe?
Reports of greece intending to take legal action to block the countrys ejection from the euro are popping up, euro & eu is a joke. The eu needs to unwind in the coming decade or its going to chcoke eveyr last peice of uniqueness & democracy from all involved, god help us if they ever get an army..
ah? That most Brits and Americans are Eurozone haters is apparently clear by now but how do you connect what Greece is trying to do with your opinion of Europe and the Euro to be a "joke"? I am afraid I do not follow your line of logic here.
Greece a country that manipulated its way into the euro, broke the rules and bankcrupted its self, got bailed out against the rules of the maastricht treaty and after years of france and germany p"ssing around, a 170+ meetings on the issue are finally about to default yet threaten legal action to remain in the eurozone? How can it not be a joke, there is NO consequence for failure, no rule that cant be bent or broken. I dont hate the eurozone I hate incompitence and greed, the euro could have been formed and run without any of these issues but the greed of the politcal class again leads to a mess and there is nothing they are not willing to sacrifice.
Im not suggesting anything about the us...each part of the world has its problems, for europe a major one is the currency and bureacrats trying to wipe nationality and freedom off the map.
what issues you have with the Euro? It works perfectly well as means of payment, is a well respected currency (in fact still the 2nd most often used currency in international trade), and it has fucked up American and London centric hedge funds every now and then. Whats not to like? ;-) You gotta learn to differentiate between a pretty well working common currency (given there is no unified fiscal policy) and a rogue state that lied and cheated at any point of its life existence. The definition of "lie" for Greeks are very different than for Germans or Scandinavians.
P.S.: In case you are failing to understand what is really going on: Europe has in the past few years ring-fenced Greece. At current British banks are by far the MOST exposed to a Greek fallout. So, in the end the only that constantly bitch about foul play in Europe are Jewish American financiers and bankers while they themselves do not leave out a single cent in "savings" by abusing every last loophole in tax-code or society there is (and if all those are exploited they have no qualm at resorting to illegal organ trades [half cynical of course]). When looking at the political mess the US is in I would choose Europe any day of my life. Or do you honestly think the Lehman mess and whole financial crisis (that the US caused by the way) has been dealt with and digested in healthy ways? Who personally in the US has been prosecuted so far? Nobody and nobody will. Richard Full will still arrogantly walk from one speaking engagement to the next though he belongs into prison for lying to regulators, congress, senate, share holders, creditors. What consequences of failure has the US imposed on criminals with money? NONE!
P.S.: In case you are failing to understand what is really going on: Europe has in the past few years ring-fenced Greece. At current British banks are by far the MOST exposed to a Greek fallout. So, in the end the only that constantly bitch about foul play in Europe are Jewish American financiers and bankers while they themselves do not leave out a single cent in "savings" by abusing every last loophole in tax-code or society there is (and if all those are exploited they have no qualm at resorting to illegal organ trades [half cynical of course]). When looking at the political mess the US is in I would choose Europe any day of my life. Or do you honestly think the Lehman mess and whole financial crisis (that the US caused by the way) has been dealt with and digested in healthy ways? Who personally in the US has been prosecuted so far? Nobody and nobody will. Richard Full will still arrogantly walk from one speaking engagement to the next though he belongs into prison for lying to regulators, congress, senate, share holders, creditors. What consequences of failure has the US imposed on criminals with money? NONE!
Greece a country that manipulated its way into the euro, broke the rules and bankcrupted its self, got bailed out against the rules of the maastricht treaty and after years of france and germany p"ssing around, a 170+ meetings on the issue are finally about to default yet threaten legal action to remain in the eurozone? How can it not be a joke, there is NO consequence for failure, no rule that cant be bent or broken. I dont hate the eurozone I hate incompitence and greed, the euro could have been formed and run without any of these issues but the greed of the politcal class again leads to a mess and there is nothing they are not willing to sacrifice.
Im not suggesting anything about the us...each part of the world has its problems, for europe a major one is the currency and bureacrats trying to wipe nationality and freedom off the map.
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Is that all it has going for it, it works well as a method of payment? Its not going to survive without ever closer union and the erosion of nations until they become nothing more than states to a european goverment, take a look at the unemployment and suffering in the pigs to keep the european dream afloat, the rise of the far right taking place across europe as germany force austerity upon countrys that forgave it for its debts after its nazi rampage.
If you think the only ones who have a problem with the direction of the eu are bankers who lost a buck you are mistaken...the euro is good for me in financial terms and if the sound princibles it was formed on were respected and we had no crisis I would respect it, as it stands its nothing more than a tool of the political class to gain power over countrys.
If you think the only ones who have a problem with the direction of the eu are bankers who lost a buck you are mistaken...the euro is good for me in financial terms and if the sound princibles it was formed on were respected and we had no crisis I would respect it, as it stands its nothing more than a tool of the political class to gain power over countrys.
oh you know what? That is the story I heard in 2007 and 2008 at a prop desk of a large American sell side ibank I worked at. Half the American PMs and head of the group were absolutely convinced that the bells were ringing for the Euro's demise. Guess what...its 2015, despite the Greek crisis the ccy trades well above parity (though I hope we will dip below over the coming year). So with all due respect, what you are saying I have heard 7 years ago and in between uncountable times. Other than an emotional aversion to European ways of running things there was not much logic that was provided behind such conviction.
Germany does not force anything on anyone. Every country has a free choice to embark on structural reforms such as Portugal, Ireland, Spain or to reject it like Greece. You can see the difference. And what will happen to extremist left parties you can witness live in a few weeks by following the implosion of Syriza.
Who told you this crap about political class wanting to gain power over countries? In case you refer to Germany, nobody wants less political involvement in Europe than Germany. Germany is happy to go about its economic work, nobody has the slightest interest in controlling or leading in any way whatsoever, politically speaking. But Germans do not allow their precious tax euros to be pulled out of the pockets by Greek savages. This is all German politicians are concerned about. Nowhere else does Germany have the slightest interest to dominate anyone.
Germany does not force anything on anyone. Every country has a free choice to embark on structural reforms such as Portugal, Ireland, Spain or to reject it like Greece. You can see the difference. And what will happen to extremist left parties you can witness live in a few weeks by following the implosion of Syriza.
Who told you this crap about political class wanting to gain power over countries? In case you refer to Germany, nobody wants less political involvement in Europe than Germany. Germany is happy to go about its economic work, nobody has the slightest interest in controlling or leading in any way whatsoever, politically speaking. But Germans do not allow their precious tax euros to be pulled out of the pockets by Greek savages. This is all German politicians are concerned about. Nowhere else does Germany have the slightest interest to dominate anyone.
Is that all it has going for it, it works well as a method of payment? Its not going to survive without ever closer union and the erosion of nations until they become nothing more than states to a european goverment, take a look at the unemployment and suffering in the pigs to keep the european dream afloat, the rise of the far right taking place across europe as germany force austerity upon countrys that forgave it for its debts after its nazi rampage.
If you think the only ones who have a problem with the direction of the eu are bankers who lost a buck you are mistaken...the euro is good for me in financial terms and if the sound princibles it was formed on were respected and we had no crisis I would respect it, as it stands its nothing more than a tool of the political class to gain power over countrys.
The only problem being I never told you a story....but yea I heard the same back then as well, though the euro is not going to end due to some grand dysfunctional default and I have not told you it would, hence my laughter at this thread and another predicted "black monday" the euro is going to end when the ever closer union required is rejected and nations leave of their own accord.
And while the political class barrel along towards further and further powers over nations and germany gives "the savages" who they were killing just over half a century ago the choice between austerity and total financial collapse, it may look appealing from the other side of the pond but hey the grass is always greener...good trading to you.
MerkelThe EU commission will eventually become a government, the council of member states an "upper chamber" and the European Parliament more powerful. But for now, we have to focus on the euro and give people a little bit of time to come along
And while the political class barrel along towards further and further powers over nations and germany gives "the savages" who they were killing just over half a century ago the choice between austerity and total financial collapse, it may look appealing from the other side of the pond but hey the grass is always greener...good trading to you.
Well, I do not see anyone wanting to leave, not even the Greeks, else they would be long gone. And I did not see the Irish want to leave, nor the Spaniards, nor Portuguese. They put up with high unemployment rates and a deep correction in their social welfare state believing that with structural reforms there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It is a fairytale to claim that a union cannot exist without a unified fiscal policy. Look at the United States. There is a common federal fiscal policy and the European union does have something comparable in place. However, each state in the US runs its own state budget, it assesses its own state taxes, and it has to balance its own budgets and at the end it indirectly either makes transfer payments to other other states via federal ledger or it receives transfer payments. Look at states like Missouri or other Southern states who have for decades sucked funding from other states via federal programs. It exists and it is sustainable. If everyone (or most) in the European union provide their fair share then there is no reason whatsoever why a common currency even with different fiscal policy settings in member countries cannot work. But Greece is a bully, it cheated and lied and it continues to cheat and lie. It has not made any valuable contributions since the second it joined the union but instead sucked billions of subsidies for its own inefficient welfare state which is morally and physically bankrupt for already decades.
And the desire by Merkel and many other statesmen to strengthen centralized European institutions is not a bad thing in the long term, it is just not high up on the priority list right now. Right now it is about creating jobs and returning to a sustainable budget. And when you look at the productivity and economic power of Germany as well as the transfer payment Germany makes to other EU member states then its representative power and share in voting is more than justified. You may not like it but not liking something and something being unfair are two entirely different stories. Luxembourg does not have a problem to have a few votes, why does Greece think it deserves as many votes as Germany does?
And the desire by Merkel and many other statesmen to strengthen centralized European institutions is not a bad thing in the long term, it is just not high up on the priority list right now. Right now it is about creating jobs and returning to a sustainable budget. And when you look at the productivity and economic power of Germany as well as the transfer payment Germany makes to other EU member states then its representative power and share in voting is more than justified. You may not like it but not liking something and something being unfair are two entirely different stories. Luxembourg does not have a problem to have a few votes, why does Greece think it deserves as many votes as Germany does?
The only problem being I never told you a story....but yea I heard the same back then as well, though the euro is not going to end due to some grand dysfunctional default and I have not told you it would, hence my laughter at this thread and another predicted "black monday" the euro is going to end when the ever closer union required is rejected and nations leave of their own accord.
Merkel
And while the political class barrel along towards further and further powers over nations and germany gives "the savages" who they were killing just over half a century ago the choice between austerity and total financial collapse, it may look appealing from the other side of the pond but hey the grass is always greener...good trading to you.
How do you know what the people of those nations want? Refurendums are a rare thing in this system unless you give the wrong answer then all of a sudden you are given two. Its all good and well giving greece a verbal kicking now but their ways of being default and financial history WAS NO SECRET. The greed of the eu political class vacumed them up with as many nations as possible in pursuit of power, in the full knowledge that it was not even close to an optimum currency area and the mechanisms needed to keep imbalances at bay were not in place, to them the issues that were to come from this were just further chances for deeper intergration which whatever merkel happens to think is a bad thing, she has no mandate to do it, the uk voted on a trade agreement not a political union and a federal system.
Comparing the eu to the states is laughable and thats the problem you have when looking in, we are not different states we are differnet countrys, nationalitys, cultures, we are never ever going to have the same structure as the states , the first country to leave and prosper will be followed by more , the eu was meant to unite it has failed, you dont understand the cultural issues and by the looks of it you never will, to you its just straight up economics and lost generations are numbers...
Comparing the eu to the states is laughable and thats the problem you have when looking in, we are not different states we are differnet countrys, nationalitys, cultures, we are never ever going to have the same structure as the states , the first country to leave and prosper will be followed by more , the eu was meant to unite it has failed, you dont understand the cultural issues and by the looks of it you never will, to you its just straight up economics and lost generations are numbers...
Comparing the eu to the states is laughable and thats the problem you have when looking in, we are not different states we are differnet countrys, nationalitys, cultures, we are never ever going to have the same structure as the states , the first country to leave and prosper will be followed by more , the eu was meant to unite it has failed, you dont understand the cultural issues and by the looks of it you never will, to you its just straight up economics and lost generations are numbers...
That is true. Which is also why many politicans are completely scared at the moment because they fear they would lose control of their population.